The Great Lolicon Debate of ANN

[Alex]

Originally Posted by xybur

The issue here is the depiction of small children that are naked.

Once again though, you're ignoring the idea of perception over content. The perception isn't focusing on the fact that it's an underage girl. The perception is intended for it to be focusing on associating "cute" with "erotic". The subject matter is simply a vessel for that association, and one that perhaps unfortunately happens to have caught on over time.

Your last "example" is missing the point. The drawn aspect of it isn't meant to be a disassociation to reality, in fact for most artists and users the reality of what the content depicts is completely irrelevant.

Because it isn't real, it doesn't look real, it doesn't try to be real, and because for the vast majority of it it's not meant to be seen as representing anything real, I can't group it in the same vein as real pedophilia. Like I said before, and I'm sorry I have to repeat myself, there's a key difference between the denotations and connotations of the word "pedophilia". You can't just simply ignore one aspect of the picture (the motivation to create/view it) and come to a fair conclusion about it.

I guess it's an odd thing to be arguing. I agree that the written subject matter is largely despicable and abhorrable, but when you consider that that's not the point of it all for the vast majority of lolikon and loli artists, I can't bring myself to lump it together with real pedophilia, since the motivation behind that is something completely different and far worse.

[Akira]

Originally Posted by xybur

Akira, you are the biggest gay pedo on this forum.

I disagree. Since my liking for shota is only at an artistic level and not in a way that I may do something illegal.

[t3hSurge]

I see children every day, I can't see how anyone could find that attractive. Early to mid-teens are diffrent, but I digress.

lolicon is hot though

[xybur]

Originally Posted by Dewgy

Once again though, you're ignoring the idea of perception over content. The perception isn't focusing on the fact that it's an underage girl. The perception is intended for it to be focusing on associating "cute" with "erotic". The subject matter is simply a vessel for that association, and one that perhaps unfortunately happens to have caught on over time.

Your last "example" is missing the point. The drawn aspect of it isn't meant to be a disassociation to reality, in fact for most artists and users the reality of what the content depicts is completely irrelevant.

Because it isn't real, it doesn't look real, it doesn't try to be real, and because for the vast majority of it it's not meant to be seen as representing anything real, I can't group it in the same vein as real pedophilia. Like I said before, and I'm sorry I have to repeat myself, there's a key difference between the denotations and connotations of the word "pedophilia". You can't just simply ignore one aspect of the picture (the motivation to create/view it) and come to a fair conclusion about it.

I guess it's an odd thing to be arguing. I agree that the written subject matter is largely despicable and abhorrable, but when you consider that that's not the point of it all for the vast majority of lolikon and loli artists, I can't bring myself to lump it together with real pedophilia, since the motivation behind that is something completely different and far worse.

Your point is that it doesn't look real, when clearly, there are some horrendously realistic looking representations of what you are describing. And when you say it doesn't try to be real, again, this may not be true for all of the pieces created (specifically tentacle etc) but as for all of the loli I have had the displeasure of viewing, the subject matter has always been erotic poses, and as realistic as you can get in a medium that is based on anime.

Those who enjoy these depictions of said children (because, face it, thats what they are, kids) are pedophiles. Plain and simple. There is really nothing to argue as far as that goes.

Yes, I agree the vessel (in this case, kids) with which your cute/erotic argument stems, but that doesn't neccesarily make it better, or hide the fact that the viewing of lolicon isn't at least slightly pedophilic.

I have always believed that those who view loli in "art form" are IN FACT trying to disassociate themselves from the reality of the situation, and are also attempting to make themselves more comfortable with the issue of pedophilia. "Oh, I'm not really a pedophile since this is a drawing! It's ok! It isn't real, so its legal, and is a safe outlet for me to release my own pent up frustrations!"

It really isn't, you are playing with fire any which way, and honestly, anyone who says differently is dodging the truth.

Will viewing loli make you a full blown predator? Maybe, maybe not. I can't say, because that depends on how much you as an individual immerse yourself in the material, but frankly, doing it will only lead to a deeper need for it, in stronger amounts, and in more grotesque ways.

One thing I can be certain of though, if you don't try to avoid it, then it will certainly affect your life in adverse ways.

[xybur]

Originally Posted by Akira

I disagree. Since my liking for shota is only at an artistic level and not in a way that I may do something illegal.

I was only poking at you :P

But hear me out and read my reply above this one.

[Excel-2010]

Dear lord, Mint Mania IIDX, what wrath hath you wrought now?

[Action Man]

In the United States and some other countries, the term is also sometimes used (incorrectly) to describe people attracted to adolescents, and usually reflects the age at which a minor becomes an adult legally — especially in regards to sexual activies. In cultures or countries where love relationships or dates between adults and adolescents are socially or legally accepted (at least with parental consent) or are viewed with tolerance, such as France or Brazil, the word pedophilia is almost never used in this sense, either formally or informally.

A person is not necessarily a pedophile simply because he can be sexually aroused by children; rather, a pedophile is defined as someone whose primary sexual attraction is toward children, however this is mostly ignored in any such matters, and usually someone is classified as a Pedophile if they are found to be sexually aroused by children. There is evidence that at least a quarter of all adult men may have feelings of sexual arousal in connection with children (Freund & Costell 1970, Hall et al. 1995, Quinsey et al. 1975). Note that pedophilia can be diagnosed solely in the presence of fantasies or sexual urges on the subject's part — it need not involve sexual acts with children, and indeed "Pedophilia" is not a legal term, it describes no act.

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 4th edition, Text Revision, American Psychiatric Association includes a Diagnostic criteria for 302.2 Pedophilia:
* A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger).
* B. The person has acted on these urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.
* C. The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.
Note: Do not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13-year-old.

American anime fans complain far too much and have less sex. In that thread this one dude was like, "I was uncomfortable with watching 13 year old kids taking a bath." Then why the fuck are you watching it in the first place? I don't see a point in the argument in point, we are naturally going to repel the open minded idea of "lolikon," but I also laugh at the fact that most people who are rejecting it, lost their virginity around that age.

I think it's wrong for anyone who forces their dick into anyone's interests or business to call it wrong.

[kbandressen]

I personally hate loli, but I think it's kind of ridiculous to equate it to CP. The whole reason why CP is so bad is that someone is forcing a real child to do sexual acts.

I agree with Xybur, loli is playing with fire. If you can fap to loli and live a normal life then more power to you, but it can definitely lead to unhealthy attractions.

[Alex]

See Vistah pretty much just proved my point. Until it becomes or is directly influenced by reality (like the bizarre, bizarre example xybur said earlier) it's not pedophilia. Even according to the DSM-IV (yeah that's right I'm a hobbyist in psychology what's your point), it can't be claimed as pedophilia until it starts being a problem or being acted upon.

Until then it's just, as I said, guys who get turned on by cute smaller girls; which thanks in a very large part to how fucked up the human psyche is is fairly normal.

Pedophilia is a mental disorder. Lolikon isn't.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by kbandressen

I agree with Xybur, loli is playing with fire. If you can fap to loli and live a normal life then more power to you, but it can definitely lead to unhealthy attractions.

This is the same argument as the "gateway drug" theory, which is quite frankly a load of shit. Someone with a predisposition towards real children may find lolikon and grow attached to it for that reason, but those who stricly like lolikon art don't care for it for the same reason as a real pedophile, and aren't going to "cross over" into being sexual predators as a result of it.

[t3hSurge]

Originally Posted by xybur

horrendously realistic looking representations of what you are describing. And when you say it doesn't try to be real, again, this may not be true for all of the pieces created

Thanks to /b/, I've run into quite a few disturbingly realistic gifs and jpgs. That's some "oh shit, the AOL police are here" stuff. There were a couple that were 3D and OH MY GOD they were depicting "lolicon" but anyone could plainly see that the erotic intent was towards CP.

On the other hand, sometimes lolicon is rediculiously cute and I have faith in humanity again.

[Mint Mania IIDX]

[Fuchikoma]

I read the first 2 posts, scrolled to the bottom, then came to the conclusion that this thread fucking sucks.



Or maybe it's just incorrect.



Let's find out:



Oh yeah, it is.

[Mint Mania IIDX]

Originally Posted by Fuchikoma

desu.

[Alex]

does that say 'nicorrect'

[nVGDlm_zk]

http://img.4chan.org/b/res/11079975.html

LITTLE BROWN GIRLS ARE THE BEST