IIDX vs. O2Jam vs. DJ MAX vs. EZ2DJ. Which would do the best in the US?

[[NesS]]

Of course everytime someone comes in and does something better than Konami or makes a change that they don't, Konami whips out the lawsuit and has a frenzy. I've never gotten to play an Ez2DJ machine but I would love to. It looks pretty entertaining and I want to use that foot pedal.

On topic: I believe that IIDX's older styles would probably do better being as it wasn't so "trance" back then. Hell, to me IIDX and beatmania are two completely different games. With beatmania you had actual things that you would scratch to and stuff you would expect to see in a DJ simulation game. With IIDX you have violins and drums and whatever the hell else they're plugging in that I don't pay that much attention to as I play. I love IIDX deeply and it's ultimately my game of choice (next to pop'n because pop'n's music genres are way spread out), and I just don't think O2Jam or DJ MAX can really put up a good fight. Obviously BMUS failed, but O2Jam is hard as fuck and DJ MAX seems pretty easy until you play stuff like Astro Fight SC. But then again, it's all a matter of opinion.

[Dreamcube017]

Well I used to have O2Jam and then got rid of it later.

IIDX is nice and really fun, but I do agree about beatmania and IIDX being different. It's even vissible in the US version. And they totally killed the free scratch which a lot of people love.
It's like it's getting further and further from a DJ sim and getting to be just a game where you hit the notes with a controller.

I never played EZ2DJ though. (off topic kinda) Does anyone know where I can find a news artical about Konami wanting to pwn Pentavision for releasing DJ MAX on the PSP? And one for EZ2DJ if you can find it. I'll continue to look too. Thanks.

On topic:

DJ Max PC is a bit easier because it's on a keyboard and not a controllr. I actually set my IIDX to 5k and then set it to the same controles as DJ MAX and it actually works. It's a bit harder on 7k though.

As for the backgrounds, IIDX looks the flashiest, but I think DJ Max has the most replay value as it has so much stuff to unlock.

I don't see why Konami just doesn't take a hint and start using holds or something else. I know for DDR it took them a LONG time to put in things that DDR sims have had already.

[[NesS]]

I really wish IIDX would have a huge unlock system like Pop'n has. :\ That's what keeps me going back to Pop'n over and over again and Pop'n is awesomly fun.

[Blackraven]

Personally, I'd scratch DJ MAX and EZ2DJ off the list. I say that because IMHO, none of the Korean and Taiwanese DJ-based games don't have that strong appeal

I'd take O2Jam out if we are talking about a wider scope (because O2Jam is only for PC use).

So, imo, I'd still choose BM IIDX (since it has an actual game cabinet that is more superior to any other DJ game on earth). Then followed by O2Jam (only because there is a super-impossible version of Fantazindy which no human can ever clear)..

Then you know what comes after

[Blackraven]

Speaking of which, has anyone heard about the O2Jam song called "Fantazindy"??

If anyone remembers the SHD super-impossible level 200 version, then there a lot of them on youtube. Unfortunately, it seems that no autobot/computer/autoplay program can score a full combo without suffering a few misses on its own.

So it means that humans can never clear this song yet even computers can't even fullcombo the thing as well??? Are our programs still sucky that we can not even do a task of full comboing this entire song and its insane non-human notechart!?!?

Just asking

[Zoness]

IMO Beatmania would have done better if Konami didn't bullshit the release. I'm playing it through now (I forget why) and there are a few things that I think might of helped it. First of all, the interface needs to be scraped, why couldn't BMUS look like any of the japanese counterparts? The unlock system should be redone as well, as much as I like the awesome, cheery, and out-there japanese songs (Sigsig and the like) coming from a sales standpoint it would have done better with some more mainstream stuff that people recognized, and not WaveGroup ripoffs.

Maybe my opinion doesn't count because I havn't got to experiment much with the other games yet, I should be getting DJmax soon and I'm watching this thread to see what else I should try.

[Bert2DX]

Originally Posted by Dreamcube017

I don't see why Konami just doesn't take a hint and start using holds or something else. I know for DDR it took them a LONG time to put in things that DDR sims have had already.

They probably were thinking about that but imagine if they acually did now. "ZOMG IIDX RIPPED OF DJMAXXXX WTF KONAMI!!11!!eleven!".

Anyway back on topic, id personally rather stay with the original and best, IIDX .

[Morning Blue]

DJMAX looks like a lot of fun, and it has something most of IIDX doesn't: interesting 2-D visuals and tons of unlocks that don't require A's on 10s, 11s, and 12s for fucking pictures. EZ2DJ could be cool too. I never cared for O2JAM since I own a Mac.

[LolYoshiz]

Originally Posted by Zoness

IMO Beatmania would have done better if Konami didn't bullshit the release. I'm playing it through now (I forget why) and there are a few things that I think might of helped it. First of all, the interface needs to be scraped, why couldn't BMUS look like any of the japanese counterparts? The unlock system should be redone as well, as much as I like the awesome, cheery, and out-there japanese songs (Sigsig and the like) coming from a sales standpoint it would have done better with some more mainstream stuff that people recognized, and not WaveGroup ripoffs.

Maybe my opinion doesn't count because I havn't got to experiment much with the other games yet, I should be getting DJmax soon and I'm watching this thread to see what else I should try.

Eh, what you're saying is pretty accurate. As a person who's heard of IIDX, but has never played it until getting the US release, the release was very lackluster. The purple interface didn't show effort, there were practically no unlocks except for Another Charts and Arcade-Free Mode, and the problem with the soundtrack was not that it used out-there Japanese songs, it was that it used BORING out-there Japanese songs. The music list was lazily decided; it might be nice to hear V or Era as an original track, but the a lot of the songlist was lame. Songs with names I can't easily remember and Slake? kthx. The difficulties of the songs were also too spread-out; I think I would've played the game more if it weren't for how there was a huge leap in difficulty from one level to the next when I wasn't even near the high-5s yet. I didn't care much for the licenses either, as they were poorly done, or I just didn't care enough.

[Alex]

Well honestly, anyone saying beatmania US was evidence that the series can't work in the US doesn't quite understand why it failed. The game was undermarketed, poorly developed, had a ton of very poor design choices, had absolutely no personality in the interface (which for comparison even for something without characters IIDX Happy Sky had an amazingly well executed interface), and had a mediocre songlist at best.

Not only that, but the release was timed just as Guitar Hero was peaking in popularity and gaining momentum, so the press compared the two and the lackluster personalityless US beatmania release just couldn't compare. If the design and focus of the game was more well thought out, it could have had enough of its own style to differentiate it as a different type of music game, but so far as anyone in the market for a music game cared; beatmania was a lackluster boring game compared to the thrilling rockfest that is Guitar Hero.

Which is a damn shame, since the interface for IIDX is what has the most personality out of the whole game, and Konami's more recent efforts could certainly turn a few heads with how well designed and eyecatching IIDX has been. beatmania US sold poorly not because the core game mechanics were unpopular, it's just American audiences like fluff and pizazz in their games' presentation.

Guitar Hero succeeds because it's been polished and shined almost to perfection, the game is pretty much as much fun for a random spectator to watch as it is for someone playing it. beatmania US comparitively, well, to reference the old adage of "you can polish a turd as much as you like...", wasn't even a very well polished turd.

[Dreamcube017]

Yeah, BM US really isn't that good. And I LOOOVE how they totally ripped the soundset from 9th Style. I mean, sheesh. They didn't even try to geet a new one.

I've found that DJ Max and O2Jam are WAY HARDER than IIDX. DJ Max Portabled 1 has you get a 90,000 combo to unlcok everything... and I don't just mean picutres. IIDXidoes need some more unlocks.

I remember asking someone here why IIDX doesn't have crazy mods like DDR does. They told me because IIDX has 7 keys and it'd be hard to do. Obviously, Pentavision didn't get the memo. They have all sorts of crazy things. You know what would be cool, a simulator that puts the not charts coming down a path towards you. THat'd be pretty cool and just have some random visualizations in the background. THEN you would have a cool game.

[Yuki Ijuin]

Originally Posted by loserbait

EZ2DJ, on the other hand, has a tremendously fantastic music range, fantastic background videos (call me old-fashioned, but the IIDX videos look like absolute shit compared to *any* other DJ simulator's videos) and the notes are fantastic -- you *don't have* to play with the 2 Effectors + pedal... You can toggle them. The hold notes are a fantastic innovation. The videos are fantastic quality. The timing is great -- not too hard, not too soft. The notes themselves are pretty decent for its time (of course there's always room for improvement but that goes with all games)...
It's just a shame that Konami killed it

Someone who actually knows what beatgames are about. I'm suddenly in love with you loserbait. XD

I personally don't understand the bashing of Ez2dj about it "COPYING" BMIII. The content is nothing alike and the gameplay is totally different, the only point of similarity is the cabinet layout. I'd gladly see another Ez2dj Machine rather than a BMIII machine that sucks that badly. If you didn't like Ez2dj you have a problem of whoring yourself to the japan. If you liked DJMAX, I don't see how you hate Ez2dj because IT'S MADE BY THE SAME DIRECTOR AND HAS ALOT OF SIMILAR ARTISTS! Sheesh. Sorry for the rant, but I wanted to burn Happy Sky. Sue me.

[Dreamcube017]

I agree though. There's this one guy that didn't like DJ Max at first because it didn't have a flashy theme or background vids were all 2D. If you think IIDX vids are all great, just sit there and watch them. Some are actually really good, but you'll notice that some just repeat themselves just like the others do. Plus if you're all about anime and stuff, DJ Max and the ohers really do have more anime styles in them than IIDX does. Now I know IIDX has the characters and they really are anime style, but the other games display a lot more anime. Plus the two above me are absolutly right. These games are a bit better than IIDX in that they just had more to them. IIDX really was meant more for arcades. I mean, if you hard clear+full combo the hardest DAN class, what do you get? A picture, and maybe a customizable thing which isn't that bad, but still, IID's unlock system is kinda lackluster if you ask me. Plus I love the lvl. up system DJ Max has where you can make your health bar stranger and plus the item battles. lol

[Yuki Ijuin]

The 3D animations in IIDX are not worth crap. They're usually just geometric shapes hovering around in space or that... that abominable TRANny. >_>"

The 2D animations actually need artistic input and drawing, you can't just put a biomechanica titled wallpaper and make it move and call it a background animation.

IMHO, IIDX is doing fine in the USA arcades because of something very simple. KONAMI has monopoly over the distribution of games. Remember how distributors would cease contracts with other companies just because Konami threatened to stop theirs? If Konami wasn't so fucking over their heads like Sony about music games then we'd actually see more quality in beatgames that are actually playable.

Not that IIDX is not playable, it's playable if you're into Eurobeat and Modern (aka crap) Trance and perhaps unintelligible english. But that's it, it's playable, the real gems of all the songs are rare to come by. The last ones I heard that made me actually want to play an IIDX game was Gigadelic and mayhaps Scorpian Fire, that's it. Konami is starting to lose sight of what videogames are about. They're reducing beatgames (All three of their franchises) into games where you're supposed to compete to be the best player and forgot that beatgames actually have to have good music. They already lose sight of it when they're pushing the artists to release formulaic tracks for a new game to be released yearly. Ez2dj or Djmax doesn't do that, they make promises of certain amount of new songs (that are playable and good) and let their artists do their work. They won't release the game if it's not done. They won't put in filler songs just to make the content seem bigger. Amount of songs in a beatgame don't matter, the quality of the songs does.

[Dreamcube017]

I couldn't agree more with that whole post. Although there are some songs I like playing on IIDX. If you're more into electronic and club music, tahn IIDX is the game for you because it just has that sort of fell. DJ Max and EZ2DJ and O2Jam too I think all have a way different type of music and have a lot more different kinds. I think IIDX is good and some of the videos really are good, but some of the 2D ones aren't that great either and get kinda boring to watch, but so do the 3D ones because both of them use the same cuts over and over and over and over again.

And yeah, I think Konami might sort of be losing the point of a beat game in some cases. Instead of trying to get the hottest artist, try getting some really good music, not that some of the music isn't good, but still.
A good example of this is with Amplitude and FreQuency. Amplitude is fun and cool and looks great, but really... I don't wanna sit there and remix a song by Blink182 or something like that. Frequency didn't look as good, but the songs were just more... more... fun! It gave you that DJ/music producer feel more than Amplitude did.
Just like that, DJ Max and the others give you more of that feeling sometimes mainly because they have WAY more unlocks than IIDX does although IIDX did get better with customizable things, but still.