Translating the NX difficulties (stars & skulls to numerics)

[Mills McDougle]

Originally Posted by Lon

Any true skilled player would S it.

So you base a Pump player on whether or not they can S that song? Damn, I better get on my grind.

Fly NM 17? You sure? Isn't Extravaganza 17 NM? And that's WAY harder than Fly.

[Brett]

Extravaganza NM is a joke if you know how the steps flow.

[Mills McDougle]

My point is that Fly isn't near as difficult as Extravaganza NM is. You don't even really have to practice Fly NM to A it without difficulty. Extravaganza's steps are way more complicated than Fly's, yet they're ranked the same(according to this).

[Brett]

Originally Posted by Mills McDougle

My point is that Fly isn't near as difficult as Extravaganza NM is. You don't even really have to practice Fly NM to A it without difficulty. Extravaganza's steps are way more complicated than Fly's, yet they're ranked the same(according to this).

Maybe you should have checked the first point I had in this thread.

[Mills McDougle]

Your point was that his depiction of the difficulty levels are wrong?

If so, why are you arguing my point if our points are the same? :\

[cj iwakura]

Extravaganza's a stamina killer, but it's not really complicated. Fly requires more spinning and what not.

And on TS' argument that rating them on the old scale is irrelevant:

New system or not, like usual, the skull system doesn't make a lot of sense to me, so I'm trying to grade the charts on a scale that more players can relate to: numerics.

[Turkeyslam]

Originally Posted by cj iwakura

Extravaganza's a stamina killer, but it's not really complicated. Fly requires more spinning and what not.

And on TS' argument that rating them on the old scale is irrelevant:

New system or not, like usual, the skull system doesn't make a lot of sense to me, so I'm trying to grade the charts on a scale that more players can relate to: numerics.

...which is exactly what Nexcade was trying to avoid. Getting levels that most people will agree with is easy for songs 14 and below, but when you get above that, nobody agrees on what belongs at what level, and this thread's posts and arguments completely and totally proves that. Certain elements are more difficult to some people than others, so a "20" to one person might be a "15" to someone else. They added this system to try to get people to look at them in a different perspective and personally I think this was a great idea. The stars peak at the highest levels you'd find for songs in the Prex/Premiere 2 days, while the skulls become a new level system for everything beyond that.

And how the hell doesn't it make sense to you? It's a scale from freaking 1 to 8! If the correlation between this and the old scale doesn't make sense to you, that's because it's on purpose! It's called re-evaluating the levels. While they STILL screwed up on some things, I personally think it's a step in the right direction. Difficulties in Pump skyrocket in a much different way than other games, so it's only natural that they do something different to represent that.

[Brett]

Everything should just go to the GF/DM system of 1-99

[Turkeyslam]

Originally Posted by αρχη

Everything should just go to the GF/DM system of 1-99

Terrible idea. It sets a peak at what the hardest song can be and allows no room for expansion. DDR stubbornly sticks to this and that makes its level system beyond 9 suck total and complete ass. Capping it at 99 is just an inflated way of doing the same thing.

[Turkeyslam]

Originally Posted by Kaze

FAE2-2 Another Nightmare is not impossible for one person. It's about as impossible as Dignity Nightmare was when Exceed came out or as impossible as Chimera Nightmare when vids were being tossed around of NX prior to release. Bee [A]NM and Chimera [A]NM are clearly impossible for one person, but I've analyzed FAE2-2 [A]NM and it all seems completely plausable.

Hence the "meant to be" I used. It's intended to be impossible, but probably people will prove them wrong just like in the past with stuff like Raw.

[Brett]

Originally Posted by Turkeyslam

Terrible idea. It sets a peak at what the hardest song can be and allows no room for expansion. DDR stubbornly sticks to this and that makes its level system beyond 9 suck total and complete ass. Capping it at 99 is just an inflated way of doing the same thing.

I don't think 1-99 is quite as tight as the 1-10 system. The 1-23 system isn't much better. There's a whole lot more diversity, and it gets rid of the "This is an easy 4 skull/20" debate. You're saying theres too much of a cap because 99 is the highest, but who is saying any songs would get a 99 rating yet? Are you suggesting that they just keep a scale like the 1-23 and as songs get harder, rate them higher? Like the new killer would be a 24, and so on for the next hardest song?

[Turkeyslam]

The Exceed/EX2/Zero system has no upper limit and the scale can be expanded as they see fit. Exceed's limit was 20. Exceed 2's was 22. Zero's was 23. NX has stuff that is technically rated higher than the one song rated as a 23.

Diversity isn't the issue. The issue is that Pump's difficulty expands in a way where people will pepertually continue to disagree about difficulties because they challenge people in extremely different ways, unlike any other game.

[Brett]

I do agree with that. Some ratings seem completely random. Another thing they could add is something similar to the Radar systems on GF/DM V3 and up. Same thing that the old DDR grove radar was. Just to let you know what a song is hard for.

[Hudson]

I don't think FAEP 2-2 is 'meant to be' impossible. It's meant to be possible, and there is nothing to extreme in it. If you know about IIDX, consider it the quasar 14[A] of Pump. Sure, it's impossible, and will be for years, but the best of the best will clear it down the line, and it could be a sort of standard that sets top tier players from the rest.

It is nothing like Raw. Everything is within the physical realm of possibility. There is nothing too extreme about it, and at a slower speed, could be S'd. Raw, not so much.

[cpubasic13]

Originally Posted by αρχη

Another thing they could add is something similar to the Radar systems on GF/DM V3 and up. Same thing that the old DDR grove radar was. Just to let you know what a song is hard for.

DDR doesn't tell you how much twisting is in the song, how many drills there are, if spins are evident, and such as that. Even if it told you all that stuff, its completely unnecessary and just adds to clutter on the selection screen.

A 1 skull means that there is an obstacle in it that some players will find challenging. Monkey Fingers CZ is a 1 skull because the freezes with the arrow tapping are challenging to some (although there has been debate over the difficulty of this). Slam CZ is a 1 skull for having jumps in runs and awkward jumps. Witch Doctor CZ for drills at high speeds. It goes on and on.

I, for example, find Monkey Fingers CZ fun and easy. However, Slam is still hard to me. Passed it with a B whereas Monkey Fingers I can S with some effort.

The skulls work. There are skulls to represent a general representation on what to expect. If you brush up on all your skills (including stamina), you may be good. If, although, you are lacking in one skill, that may be the skill centered in the harder songs, and that may kill you in the end.

It works. No numbers needed.

The easier songs? Of course! New players want a grand scale so they know they aren't being raped when selecting a song. Had that happen before with Exceed 2 when we had it. NX fixed it when they selected a difficulty and saw a skull, immediately prompting them to change to another song or difficulty as they weren't that good.