The Promotion Controversy

ZanasoBayncuh · 02-05-2007, 09:36 PM

Here's the thing.

The idea for promoting one's simfiles in forum posts is kinda dumb because of possible post whoring, I agree. This would NOT change even if the tokens weren't given for posting.

As PhoenixW pointed out, yeah there is negative feedback, and there are some people that want to bash your style just because they feel like it. Such as my sim for 'The Hard Way' by Fort Minor recieved a 1 from neodude237, alongside a 9 and three 10s. Shit happens, get over it. FACT - if you recieve consistently bad responses from your sims, maybe it really did suck, back to the drawing board. I really don't care about it because it gets consistently good responses and that lets me KNOW that I did a good job. (especially after sponsorring it, that is like asking for negative attention)

Now here are some more truths, we NEED something to encourage more feed back and to maybe even somewhat require it. As before and possibly even moreso now there are tons of absolutely crap sims on this site that mean nothing but wasted memory and download time. There are the few shining stars that may or may not ever get noticed based on the fact that they are simply never found because no one wants to spend four days weaving through piles of trash. Good responses are encouraging and if bad responses don't fill you in on the truth then you shouldn't submit. And if you can't take bad criticism then you should NEVER submit.

The most respectful thing that we can do, to save server space, to help not bog down the site and make them struggle with money and what-not trying to buy a new server is to find ways not to cripple the server with simfiles that aren't worth the time of day.

I'm not saying that something should be deleted because *I* don't like it, I'm just saying that if a sim is regularly rated or commented poorly then it shouldn't be here.

Now... I think that we should have it so that you MUST comment/rate if you are downloading sims, it is yet another waste of server space for leeching users to sit back and get the benefits of simfile downloads that are in a system based on feedback and leave none at all. Even TORRENTs do not allow leeching peacefully, it KILLS your download speed. So there should be something that encourages it or perhaps even require it to some extent. Perhaps where such a percentage of your downloads have to have been comment/rated or perhaps if you are 5 or 10 downloads ahead of your comment/rates.

Completely retarded comments need to be reported more often, if someone says that they think your sim is retarded and can't even give a vague reason, they should be reported immediately. And you shouldn't be able to rate without leaving a comment, as that is just as bad when you leave a low rate without giving any reason why. This would cut down on comments that are left in the spirit of just being a douchebag.

If there are any further questions, discussions based on this idea, seriously it is something that really should be done.

Conclusion: We need something that promotes production here, if it isn't useful, get rid of it.

SulferDragon · 02-06-2007, 01:20 AM

ZanasoBayncuh has a very good arguement. We don't need a forum for promoting sims, but I don't think we should force people to rate sims eighter. What we need is something that will give people an incentive to leave feedback. I'm not sure what yet, but something.

Feedback is very import for me, and for anyone. When I first started sim making my stuff was pure crap, if I had been getting more feedback from people I would've learned a lot faster then I did. Which is why I've started uploading my sims on flashflashrevolution too. On FFR you can play the simfile right there on the website which means you're going to get a lot more feedback. I know something that lets you play sims here on bemanistyle is out of the question, but I really wish for more feedback from people. I always try to leave feedback.

One note: A simfile I uploaded here on bemanistyle currently has about 500 downloads, and I have no comments, or ratings from anyone... I uploaded it on FFR, and I got 4 comments in one day. It's like, I wish it was like that here.

ZanasoBayncuh · 02-06-2007, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SulferDragon

ZanasoBayncuh has a very good arguement. We don't need a forum for promoting sims, but I don't think we should force people to rate sims eighter. What we need is something that will give people an incentive to leave feedback. I'm not sure what yet, but something.

Feedback is very import for me, and for anyone. When I first started sim making my stuff was pure crap, if I had been getting more feedback from people I would've learned a lot faster then I did. Which is why I've started uploading my sims on flashflashrevolution too. On FFR you can play the simfile right there on the website which means you're going to get a lot more feedback. I know something that lets you play sims here on bemanistyle is out of the question, but I really wish for more feedback from people. I always try to leave feedback.

One note: A simfile I uploaded here on bemanistyle currently has about 500 downloads, and I have no comments, or ratings from anyone... I uploaded it on FFR, and I got 4 comments in one day. It's like, I wish it was like that here.

'tis true about feedback helping you learn to better yourself every time. But Sulfer... here's what's even more helpful to quick learning... get some close friends who pad play and get their opinions. Then again, I guess that is assuming that they aren't going to tell you that you did good regardless. I had some good honest friends who told me straight up whether or not my sims were good and I did sim editting far before I got to this site, try to find a sim of mine that is pure crap and that is on this site :P lol.

Still though, the required comment idea was just that, an idea, a loose one at that. But there definitely should be measures taken against users that do nothing but sit back and download without any other involvement with the community, that's just... WRONG.

*phuzion* · 02-06-2007, 01:57 AM

We will not force people to rate sims. Ever.

If we did, people wouldn't be issuing ratings that they truly stand behind. They'd just rate it with whatever their mouse landed on, just to get the rating process done with.

Basically, it works like this: If you force people to do something, they usually don't give a shit about it. If you use a good method to encourage people to do something, they tend to take a lot more care when they make their decisions, and in general, the final quality is much higher.

ZanasoBayncuh · 02-06-2007, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phuzion

We will not force people to rate sims. Ever.

If we did, people wouldn't be issuing ratings that they truly stand behind. They'd just rate it with whatever their mouse landed on, just to get the rating process done with.

Basically, it works like this: If you force people to do something, they usually don't give a shit about it. If you use a good method to encourage people to do something, they tend to take a lot more care when they make their decisions, and in general, the final quality is much higher.

Like I said, the 'requirement' thing was a LOOSE idea. Fact is that offering an incentive for this would end with the exact same turn up, people rating/commenting like total dumbasses. But there ought to be some type of policing for such a thing, particularly member based reports. Which would, like I've stated before, weed out the asshattery after a while, leaving a healthier community. I mean this site is only seen by many as free hosting and by others a plague to be avoided. Something needs to be done about many problems, which would almost ALL be fixed by an active and productive community. More comments/rates means less shit on the server. One way or the other it should definitely happen.

Silliest crap ever = when someone IMs you that your file was good and leaves no comment/rate.

Step one, you ought not be able to rate without a comment, and if you are just committing douchery in the comment then the rate should be removed and an infraction delivered. SIMPLE. This is how anti-leeching comment/rate policies would work. You don't contribute, you download, you don't comment/rate EVER, you are a parasite. Why should this be allowed?

Ben Speirs · 02-06-2007, 10:02 AM

Well could you at least give about 2 tokens for every file you comment on? That would be a good idea as we would all get better feedback, but we would also need a Report Comment button if they are just spamming.

Or you could just force the person to leave a rating if they comment.

SulferDragon · 02-06-2007, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZanasoBayncuh

Step one, you ought not be able to rate without a comment, and if you are just committing douchery in the comment then the rate should be removed and an infraction delivered. SIMPLE. This is how anti-leeching comment/rate policies would work. You don't contribute, you download, you don't comment/rate EVER, you are a parasite. Why should this be allowed?

I think as long as they rate the file an 8 or higher they shouldn't have to leave a comment. Only make it mandatory if they rate it 7 or less, because that is saying the file was only avarage, which means there's plenty of room for improvement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEN.(SPEIRS) 7.0

Well could you at least give about 2 tokens for every file you comment on? That would be a good idea as we would all get better feedback, but we would also need a Report Comment button if they are just spamming.

That's what I was think, but I'm not sure if that would encourage enough people. I'm sure most people in the sims database really don't care about tokens, and the people who actually have a lot of tokens really wouldn't care about two tokens. But maybe...

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEN.(SPEIRS) 7.0

Or you could just force the person to leave a rating if they comment.

That works too.

ZanasoBayncuh · 02-07-2007, 01:25 AM

SAD FACT: Improving on this will lower the frequency for the need of spending loads of money on new servers. And somehow there's only been ONE post from ONE staff member that was based around ONE fraction of this idea. Not much going on with that.

TOKENS FOR COMMENTS: This really would cause the same thing as requiring comments altogether with the exception of those who don't give a damn about tokens. But what would make either of them more viable is the idea of a 'Report Comment' link/button. This is why requiring it of 'members' who are obviously nothing more than bandwidth sucking parasites (leechers) should be a must.

LEECHING: Somehow it should be made where this is simply not possible, no one with a sign in name should be capable of having NOTHING BUT DOWNLOADS as their sign-on activity. No one with a sign on name ought to be able to download over 1000 times & such without ever leaving feedback. There are loads of members on this site and most of them don't post in forums OR leave feedback.

REQUIRE COMMENT FOR RATING: You know, I can handle the idea of only requiring it for less than an 8. That actually would fix the problem I'm talking about, there isn't much to say when you are rating 9-10 anyway other than "DUDE LIKE AWESOME WAFFLES."

POSSIBLE FORUM IDEA: Maybe, instead of creating a forum for advertising your own sims there should be a forum for the advertisement of OTHER'S sims. For instance if I were to post a thread that advertises AAA James's (jAAAmes) sims (which are quite nice, btw. Cookin' by the Book, lol.). Yet another loose idea, it should probably just be allowed in the Dance Simulation forum rather than having its own area.

I'll be watching for any further responses here. This type of thing is what would better the website overall. Anyone tired of downloading for three hours and keeping 0-1 sims after the subsequent six hours of playing really bad, usually off sync crap?

ZanasoBayncuh · 02-15-2007, 12:55 AM

So nothing in response to the idea for requiring a comment before you can rate? It'd make the malicious ratings a bit more obvious so that they could be reported.

***Keith*** · 02-15-2007, 11:53 AM

Malicious ratings shouldn't even be added to the total score. I want to say we average the middle 50% of the score and that is the total score. That way if you get all 9's and 10's and then some one gives it a 1, that 1 won't hurt your score.

At least in theory that's how it should work but I made that code a long time ago and haven't touched it since then.

ZanasoBayncuh · 02-15-2007, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith

Malicious ratings shouldn't even be added to the total score. I want to say we average the middle 50% of the score and that is the total score. That way if you get all 9's and 10's and then some one gives it a 1, that 1 won't hurt your score.

At least in theory that's how it should work but I made that code a long time ago and haven't touched it since then.

Even so, we should be able to know to report the douchebags that give malicious ratings. So being able to report comments that are obviously bogus would help get rid of some of the 'lower element'.

***Keith*** · 02-16-2007, 12:10 PM

Maybe we need to come up with a whole different rating system?

Maybe something based on downloads, views, and maybe like a thumb up and down system?

ZanasoBayncuh · 02-16-2007, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith

Maybe we need to come up with a whole different rating system?

Maybe something based on downloads, views, and maybe like a thumb up and down system?

Sounds a shitload worse than what is already in place, so I've no doubt it'll happen... *sigh*

Add the views thing, but seriously, I don't see how requiring a comment to validate a rating would be a problem. It sounds even, somewhat... logical?

***Keith*** · 02-17-2007, 01:58 AM

I'm not really sure what you mean.

The problem is ratings are very rare already. If you only allow ratings with a comment there will be even less ratings.

That is why I think we should come up with a whole new rating system. Like an algorithm that calculates the rating based on the simfiles popularity instead of just rating the file.

ZanasoBayncuh · 02-17-2007, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith

I'm not really sure what you mean.

The problem is ratings are very rare already. If you only allow ratings with a comment there will be even less ratings.

That is why I think we should come up with a whole new rating system. Like an algorithm that calculates the rating based on the simfiles popularity instead of just rating the file.

Since people NEVER download the file, decide it sucks, and delete it... over and over and over and over. Ok, screw this altogether... this still goes back to the fact that there are far too many leechers here and nothing will ever be done about it, so it seems. The current rating system with the exception of that one complaint is fine.

If someone wants to rate bad enough to do it in the first place, then they'd comment as well... which is what normally happens, with the exception of the malicious ones, and screw it... I'm tired of trying to get the idea across, this is dumb.