The Promotion Controversy

[ZanasoBayncuh]

Once enough reports came in, resulting in banning of the jackasses who do it, that button would start getting used less.

And saying that you don't have time to comment/rate? If you have the time to download then that simply isn't true, that is a BAD excuse, comment/rate takes a whole OMG couple of seconds.

ALSO, it should be just as easy for me to report a comment on MY simfile as it would be for me to report one on someone else's simfile. Leading to bad comments getting thrown out. Also if people knew that bullshit comments would result in infractions then it wouldn't happen as often that way either.

However, I have given up any hope of some kind of improvement in this measure. The databases are going to be consistently filled with shit, loads of leechers, plus downloading for hours to turn up empty handed seems to be destiny.

[SulferDragon]

Originally Posted by ZanasoBayncuh

And saying that you don't have time to comment/rate? If you have the time to download then that simply isn't true, that is a BAD excuse, comment/rate takes a whole OMG couple of seconds.

Well, commenting can take a few minutes unless all you're saying is something like "This simfile is awesome!" Which is a perfectly good comment in my book.

Originally Posted by ZanasoBayncuh

However, I have given up any hope of some kind of improvement in this measure. The databases are going to be consistently filled with shit, loads of leechers, plus downloading for hours to turn up empty handed seems to be destiny.

Quit being so negative, you're making me cry...

[Keith]

There is nothing we can do unless we come up with a new original idea.

Making users comment to rate will do nothing. It won't get you any more comments, it will just get you less ratings.

[ZanasoBayncuh]

Originally Posted by Keith

There is nothing we can do unless we come up with a new original idea.

Making users comment to rate will do nothing. It won't get you any more comments, it will just get you less ratings.

Sure, I guess it makes sense to you guys that someone can comment/rate before even downloading the song either.

New and original, what we have is great, as long as we have an active and cooperative community then we have an excellent layout for how things should be with the exception that there seems to be no system for the removal of something that is complete and total crap.

However this place DOESN'T have an active and cooperative community on the matter and it does nothing to promote such. This is a direct cause to the flooding of the database with trash (no one has acknowledged this yet). With more comment/rating we can begin to eliminate unnecessary download time on crap files, encourage downloading in general by encouraging better content overall, start to eliminate useless members who never contribute to anything for anything or about anything, and eliminate alot of server burdens.

PLEASE IGNORE THE ABOVE PARAGRAPH - if you don't then the responses on this topic will no longer be consistent, and I guess we can't have that.

[Keith]

Sure, I guess it makes sense to you guys that someone can comment/rate before even downloading the song either.

Users could have gotten the file somewhere else or from 6.0 and want to rate or comment on it without downloading it. All of this stuff has been talked about for 4 years now and it's always the same outcome.

Also eliminating members does nothing to help people who make simfiles. If anything it hurts them since less people will download their files.

Like I've said 3 times now. The only way this could be fixed is with a whole different system. Obviously the rating and comment system doesn't work. Comments are fine but ratings are pretty useless and they always will be.

I'm still planning on making a new page that lists all simfiles you've downloaded so you can go back for easy reference and I'm going to try to encourage ratings and comments more but I think we should go with an easier, thumbs up, thumbs down type system. Combined with how many downloads, comments and many a few other factors and that would be used as a rating. Not specifically 1 - 10.

[Ben Speirs]

Originally Posted by Keith

but I think we should go with an easier, thumbs up, thumbs down type system.

I swear this website is slowly turning into eBay :P

[SulferDragon]

Originally Posted by Keith

I'm still planning on making a new page that lists all simfiles you've downloaded so you can go back for easy reference and I'm going to try to encourage ratings and comments more but I think we should go with an easier, thumbs up, thumbs down type system. Combined with how many downloads, comments and many a few other factors and that would be used as a rating. Not specifically 1 - 10.

Thumbs up, thumbs down isn't exact enough. That's only giving people the option to say it was good, or it was bad. If that happens, there should also be a sideways thumb (just like the neutral rating on eBay, lol) to say that it was okay.

Honestly though, I think it should just be changed to 1 - 5 if anything. Excellent, Good, Average, Bad, and Terrible. See, basically just the same as when rating threads.

I think downloads affecting the ratings is a bad idea though, because I know many really good simfiles that have very little downloads. If that was to happen every highly downloaded file would have a higher rating, even if it wasn't that great. While every lower downloaded file would have a lower rating even if it was awesome.

[Keith]

The point of thumbs up and thumbs down isn't to rate them. It's to order the sim files so we can weed out the bad ones. If it's neutral, you don't press anything.

But what we can do is we can show how many thumbs up or down a file has had. Then in your settings you can say, I don't want to show any simfiles that is less then -4 or whatever. Which is kind of like a filter to filter out really bad ones. Or actually we could leave them there but make them look dimmed out or something.

[ZanasoBayncuh]

Originally Posted by Keith

Users could have gotten the file somewhere else or from 6.0 and want to rate or comment on it without downloading it. All of this stuff has been talked about for 4 years now and it's always the same outcome.

Yeah see, I've noticed this neat little checkmark next to things I've downloaded on different computers, WHAT A COMPLEX PROBLEM... :/

Originally Posted by Keith

Also eliminating members does nothing to help people who make simfiles. If anything it hurts them since less people will download their files.

Yes, I'm sure that the eventuality of this leading to the promotion of what content there is being higher quality, which would lead to more downloads because people wouldn't count on getting nothing but shit would certainly kill the download rate. *sigh* And God know that it would totally suck to get rid of the useless jackasses that act as nothing but parasites to the server, but sure, parasites are good I guess.

Originally Posted by Keith

Like I've said 3 times now. The only way this could be fixed is with a whole different system. Obviously the rating and comment system doesn't work. Comments are fine but ratings are pretty useless and they always will be.

And like I've disagreed with, I guess this is the forth time (maybe you should pay attention?), this is a great system if people actually participate in it. Yet the system that YOU suggest would be massively swayed to songs that people just like... I'm QUITE CERTAIN that this file is DEFINITELY one of the best sims on the site, right? (no it isn't, so/so not that great). The popularity of download is based mostly on the music the sim is based on and tends not to have anything to do with the sim itself, why is that? BECAUSE YOU DON'T SEE THE SIM UNTIL AFTERWARDS *sigh*.

Originally Posted by Keith

I'm still planning on making a new page that lists all simfiles you've downloaded so you can go back for easy reference and I'm going to try to encourage ratings and comments more...

I agree with this idea, I also think that the simfile author ought to have a list of those who downloaded his work though.

Originally Posted by Keith

...but I think we should go with an easier, thumbs up, thumbs down type system. Combined with how many downloads, comments and many a few other factors and that would be used as a rating. Not specifically 1 - 10.

Since things are NEVER neutral, or almost bad, or almost good. Yeah, it either has to be totally blow or totally amazing. Whatever, do as you will... since you aren't understand the policial ballancing that I'm suggesting I guess I should just forget that I made this thread.

[SulferDragon]

Originally Posted by Keith

But what we can do is we can show how many thumbs up or down a file has had. Then in your settings you can say, I don't want to show any simfiles that is less then -4 or whatever. Which is kind of like a filter to filter out really bad ones. Or actually we could leave them there but make them look dimmed out or something.

Ah, I see. That's definitely a good idea. I guess if you were going to rate the file a 8-10 you would probably thumbs up; 4-7 nothing; 1-3 thumbs down. Basically going with how the rating system goes Good, Average, Bad.

Originally Posted by ZanasoBayncuh

And like I've disagreed with, I guess this is the forth time (maybe you should pay attention?), this is a great system if people actually participate in it. Yet the system that YOU suggest would be massively swayed to songs that people just like... I'm QUITE CERTAIN that this file is DEFINITELY one of the best sims on the site, right? (no it isn't, so/so not that great). The popularity of download is based mostly on the music the sim is based on and tends not to have anything to do with the sim itself, why is that? BECAUSE YOU DON'T SEE THE SIM UNTIL AFTERWARDS *sigh*.

Very, very, very true!

Originally Posted by ZanasoBayncuh

I agree with this idea, I also think that the simfile author ought to have a list of those who downloaded his work though.

I've though about this too, I think this would also be a good idea, but not as necessary as it showing your most recent downlaods.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by ZanasoBayncuh

Yeah see, I've noticed this neat little checkmark next to things I've downloaded on different computers, WHAT A COMPLEX PROBLEM... :/

I said if they downloaded it in 6.0 or from another website. If they downloaded it in 6.0 there wouldn't be a checkmark, if they downloaded it from another website, there wouldn't be a checkmark. They still played the file but they can't rate it because they haven't downloaded it from bemanistyle? That's kind of backwards. Also the complex problem isn't that. When I said this has been talked about for 4 years I meant this stuff in the whole thread, not just rating a file you haven't downloaded. I'm not saying at all that we are going to do this. I'm just throwing it out there to see what people think.

And like I've disagreed with, I guess this is the forth time (maybe you should pay attention?), this is a great system if people actually participate in it. Yet the system that YOU suggest would be massively swayed to songs that people just like... I'm QUITE CERTAIN that this file is DEFINITELY one of the best sims on the site, right? (no it isn't, so/so not that great). The popularity of download is based mostly on the music the sim is based on and tends not to have anything to do with the sim itself, why is that? BECAUSE YOU DON'T SEE THE SIM UNTIL AFTERWARDS *sigh*.

So a simple thumbs up and down system would never work but a system where you rate from 1-10 and then you have to leave a comment will? Like I said there would be multiple factors, some based higher then others. How many times a file has been downloaded is only 1 factor.

Since things are NEVER neutral, or almost bad, or almost good. Yeah, it either has to be totally blow or totally amazing. Whatever, do as you will... since you aren't understand the policial ballancing that I'm suggesting I guess I should just forget that I made this thread.

I went back and re-read your first post. The only problem I see with it is that it will bring in less people to download your simfiles. I don't know, requiring people to rate and comment could just kill the simfile database to only creators. I really don't know the answer to this question, how many people rate simfiles who don't create simfiles their selves? Are we going to send all of the leechers to ffr and pretty much kill the simfile database here? These are real questions I have. I don't see your system being bad other then that.

The other problem is, your whole plan is defensive. If some one makes bad comments just delete them. All of our moderators and even the admins are not paid for anything. It's very hard to get people to go and moderator stuff day after day for years.

Also you need to relax.

[Keith]

I got a few more things to add.

What's to stop people from posting all 8-10 on all the simfiles they rate? No one is going to report a good rating.
Also what if people comment things like good job?

I also thought of a way to do your system. Basically we would give a percentage of how many they have rated compared to downloaded. If it's below whatever percent we stop them from downloading. Basically the same thing you said but it's easier to do.

Honestly I think it's a good system that could work we just need to think it all through.

[ZanasoBayncuh]

Originally Posted by Keith

I said if they downloaded it in 6.0 or from another website. If they downloaded it in 6.0 there wouldn't be a checkmark, if they downloaded it from another website, there wouldn't be a checkmark. They still played the file but they can't rate it because they haven't downloaded it from bemanistyle? That's kind of backwards. Also the complex problem isn't that. When I said this has been talked about for 4 years I meant this stuff in the whole thread, not just rating a file you haven't downloaded. I'm not saying at all that we are going to do this. I'm just throwing it out there to see what people think.

Well with something like that, it'd be an old file, or not even necessarily the same file. How can they comment/rate a file that they THINK they're familiar with, how many people have simmed Buckethead's Jordan already? Other than that, I see your point, but it's still dumb to comment/rate a file that may have improved or that you may not have necessarily seen.

Originally Posted by Keith

So a simple thumbs up and down system would never work but a system where you rate from 1-10 and then you have to leave a comment will? Like I said there would be multiple factors, some based higher then others. How many times a file has been downloaded is only 1 factor.

Problem with this idea is that downloads shouldn't be a factor in the first place, how many times you get downloaded means nothing if your stuff is good. And most of this idea would start causing the good people to get noticed.

Originally Posted by Keith

I went back and re-read your first post. The only problem I see with it is that it will bring in less people to download your simfiles. I don't know, requiring people to rate and comment could just kill the simfile database to only creators. I really don't know the answer to this question, how many people rate simfiles who don't create simfiles their selves? Are we going to send all of the leechers to ffr and pretty much kill the simfile database here? These are real questions I have. I don't see your system being bad other then that.

Imagine you're trying to find good sims on a site that is made of 88%+ bad sims. You spend three hours downloading them, 20 minutes sorting and placing them in StepMania, 6+ hours playing them, and you end up keeping one song and almost cried tears of angst and boredom finding it. Now, do you wanna go on another downloading expedition? If this system noticeably brings about better overall content (and it would) then the downloads might actually increase. Plus, files that are actually worth playing would be getting downloaded, and not the crap ones. So that means that all the worthless downloads would filter into files that are worth our time. So whether or not this stops some people from downloading (I really doubt it) it'll still divert the other downloads to files that deserve it.

Originally Posted by Keith

The other problem is, your whole plan is defensive. If some one makes bad comments just delete them. All of our moderators and even the admins are not paid for anything. It's very hard to get people to go and moderator stuff day after day for years.

Need a volunteer?

[ZanasoBayncuh]

Originally Posted by Keith

What's to stop people from posting all 8-10 on all the simfiles they rate?

Well, you'd hope that people taking the time to rate would care if the overall quality of the site is affected by something that dumb. The rating system should start being used to dispense the garbage and if people start to realize that the rating system can be key to maintaining a database of quality stuff then I think there'll be more cooperation than that, with the exception of the leeches... which would become evident sooner or later.

Originally Posted by Keith

No one is going to report a good rating. Also what if people comment things like good job?

Well, fortunately that 'Report this Comment' link is on comments on other people's simfiles too. And if "Good job" fits the rating then there's nothing wrong with that, but most people that are actually going to comment mindlessly are going to make it more apparent, you've seen internet stupidity before... it doesn't disguise itself or anything.

Originally Posted by Keith

I also thought of a way to do your system. Basically we would give a percentage of how many they have rated compared to downloaded. If it's below whatever percent we stop them from downloading. Basically the same thing you said but it's easier to do.

Sounds AMAZING. That coupled along with the personal download log that you said you've been working on would be great. Though I'd still like to have a list on my profile of who has been downloading MY stuffs. But I guess that'd be last on this particular list.

Originally Posted by Keith

Honestly I think it's a good system that could work we just need to think it all through.

PRAISE YOU Keith... I can't wait to see this come into effect ... keep me notified?

[SulferDragon]

I'm starting to notice changes, like this:
Pct. Sims Rated *insert number*% (this percent is how many simfile downloads you have rated) in my simfile profile. Also, my most recent ratings, most recent comments boxes have changed.

I'm really pleased with these changes, I can't wait to see what else happens.