BS/CE vs P1/P2

[Baldfalk]

So, let's just forget what's happening or not happening for a moment and look at what's already been made. Digging through some of the old discussions I came across a recurring opinion (back then, at least, around launch time) that the BS/CE songlists just weren't as outstanding as the older stuff.

Now that I've actually gotten my hands on the games rather than just looking at youtubes (and drooling) I've really gotta ask myself. Is there a modicum of truth to the opinion that Portable 2 is/was the pinnacle of the series?

I've decided to really go in-depth and give my opinions/mini-reviews on pairs of songs which I consider extremely similar and/or fulfill the same niches within the songlists. Music is subjective, so you may disagree with some of the opinions or even the validity of each pairing. I'd like to hear other people's thoughts as well, of course.

A recurring point that I keep coming across is that BS/CE songs are generally just shorter and regardless of if this is to cater towards an arcade feel and/or simply just a filesize issue (due to full motion MVs now), it really, really does affect the music and I try to keep that in mind while doing the comparisons. Also, while I really shouldn't be including MV material in the comparisons, they do make up part of the complete experience, so I'll just not penalize the P1/P2 stuff for being glorified swf files and concentrate on the content instead, especially how it complements the music

I've also tried to keep the composer the same for each pair of songs (along with genre, but in some cases the application of that is questionable - oh well) to 'keep it fair' and see how the series has progressed/regressed musically on a style-by-style basis.

So, on with the show!

(Electro Funk) Out Law vs Desperado
Croove more or less implies that the latter is a continuation of the former. While the concept of an entire track adhering to monophony throughout (only one recognizable pitch) is interesting, and Desperado has some really cool rhythmic ideas going on, I'd have to say Out Law is a much more solid track overall. Outlaw does the whole buffer glitching thing (before second verse) a lot better.

Perhaps that's also because Out Law has a full 20 seconds more and doesn't feel like it's being rushed - that last section afterthe break really brings the track around full circle.


(RnB) Sunny Side vs (Acin (lol) House) Sweet Shining Shooting Star
Yes, I'm comparing RnB to House, but other than the underlying beat being different, I really feel that both songs stem from the same underlying inspirations - similar chord/tensions, similar syncopation, and of course the same vocalists. The alternative would be to compare SSSS to Get Up, which I feel would be a little unfair. ;p

It's a tough decision, and both songs only grew on to me after a while. (I distinctly remember disliking Sunny Side way back when - don't hit me) SSSS develops and flows much better overall despite being shorter, although Sunny Side has a really memorable keyboard solo. Adhering to my principal of not penalizing BS/CE material for being shorter, I'm going to assume that SSSS might also have had a similar solo on an extended version (real pity :/). So excluding the Sunny Side solo, SSSS strikes me as a better composition overall.


(Pop/RnB) First Kiss vs Ask to Wind
Different composer, different MV themes, but the songs are actually pretty similar and probably could be medleyed.

First Kiss has a catchier beat, better bassline and arguably better chord progressions, hands down. Also despite being shorter, has a much more dynamic bridge section. Clear winner.


(Hip Hop/Rap) JBG vs Mutu
SCREW OFF WHY IS THIS EVEN A COMPARISON JBG WINS. NEXT.

(Although it's a shame it got cut even shorter for BS/CE )


(Psy Trance) Hamsin vs Fermion
Tough call. While Hamsin's chart has always been one of a kind, I'm comparing music first and foremost, not gameplay. I'm going to go with Fermion - Makou obviously refined his style in this genre over the years and it shows.


(Dance Pop) Remember vs Ladymade Star
Okay, I feel really bad about this one. I love Ladymade Star. I really do. However, despite this being a somewhat unfair comparison (different composers) Remember is by leaps and bounds much more memorable. Lin-G is definitely a master of the genre, and if it's one thing BS/CE is strong in, it's that. I nearly used I Want You as a comparison instead due to a more similar singing style, but felt Remember's chord progressions better matched Ladymade Star. I guess we could tag-team Remember/I Want You against Ladymade Star/Bright Dream? (Lin-G still wins!)


(Guitar-driven Dance) Hello Pinky vs In My Heart
This is a side of Tsukasa that wasn't previously featured in DJMAX. Again, I'm a little uncomfortable pairing up songs by different composers, but them songs do share a lot in common. Hello Pinky feels forced in places, while In My Heart flows beautifully. The latter has a much simpler/slower pace for the guitar lead, but somehow it really gels with the rest of the song much better.


I had a bunch of other comparisons to make as well (Planetboom/Bexter/ReX), but I'll hold off for now.


Aside from all the direct comparisons, there are plenty of songs which just don't have a real analogue in the other era. Shoreline and Secret World, for example, would be completely unfair to compare to anything else - I feel tracks like those really branch DJMAX out into uncharted territories. And yet on the flipside, I feel BS/CE has had a severe lack of DnB to stand toe-to-toe with Blythe/Sin/Nightmare (all of which have been brought forward - coincidence?) as well as hardcore rock aside from Real Over Drive (which is more a Trilogy song than BS/CE - in fact the movie isn't even synced and it feels tacked on :/ )

The bottom line conclusion I've arrived to is... BS/CE gained quite a lot yet lost quite a bit as well. Also as someone put it quite colorfully, there's now a much larger fraction of immemorable 'elevator music'. I don't think The Last Dance for example fits in the series. At all. Neither does a lot of Cooly's Hot Box stuff.

Thoughts?

What would you like to see should the series release another title? (cue mario-falling-into-pit sound)

[ThatsGobbles]

Am I the only one that likes Mutu?

[Hachiichirou]

Mutu's alright. but not my favorite...

[Baldfalk]

Mutu's cool, but JBG is...

well...

JBG. Yeah.

Also, I'm pretty damned biased, aren't I?

[Spiritsnare]

I like Mutu over JBG, long version doubly so -- it's ridiculously catchy.

Originally Posted by Baldfalk

Shoreline, for example, would be completely unfair to compare to anything else

I agree. It's that good.

[Troni]

Originally Posted by Baldfalk

I've decided to really go in-depth and give my opinions/mini-reviews on pairs of songs which I consider extremely similar and/or fulfill the same niches within the songlists.

Actually, part of the reason I don't like BS/CE that much, is exactly what you mentioned here... a lot of the songs are very similar to older songs.
Also a lot of the songs on BS/CE are similar to each other, and there is nothing original about them, I call them filler songs, like Coastal Tempo, Dear My Lady, Honeymoon, Lover, I want You, Y, even SSSS and Melody.
But I guess if you compare song to song, I would agree with you on most of your choices, but I don't think that's how you compare two titles, you should compare song lists.
For me the thing BS/CE lacks more than anything, is new M2U and Forte Escape songs.
Songs like, End of Moonlight, Seeker, Nightmare, Blythe, Memoirs, A.I., the NB series...are what made Djmax into what it is today.

[☆DANNY☆]

I have to dissagree on your Hello Pinky vs In My Heart outcome. Although i love In My Heart, Hello Pinky is just epic, it's really fun and upbeat when In My Heart tends to fall a little flat (especially in the vocals) and doesn't seem to have any high points in which you go "wow nice".

Although if your comparing it with the version sung by Pink Anna then i guess you're right.

[Baldfalk]

@Troni -
Don't forget Chrono Breakers!

I mean, NieN did come up with Someday, but that ended up on Trilogy rather than BS/CE.

I'd really like to know what the underlying factor behind the dichotomy of TR vs BS/CE was... it really was like two completely seperate projects which didn't even acknowledge each other.

I actually think I Want You, Y, Lover, SSSS and especially Coastal Tempo are pretty distinct distinct songs characterwise (although Y and Lover being slightly different repeats on BS vs CE can go DIAF), but I have a healthy appetite for House music, so that could be why. Honeymoon and DJMAX by Humming Urban Stereo, on the other hand are completely meh.

I agree that comparing two eras would best be accomplished via looking at overall songlists - but zooming in to see how individual genres are represented also sorta-works. Of course, narrowing down each genre to a single song is a little too far, but eh, does it really matter?

Speaking of End of the Moonlight, I would have likened TCBS to it for the overall style, the vocals and the MV theme. I originally ended up pairing PFW with Phantom of Sky and/or Memoirs (of all things - though they -are- somewhat similar in mood) but came to my senses since PFW really is one of those incomparable tracks.

Sugardonut is a somewhat subpar replacement for the rock side of old DJMAX (NieN). I mean yeah, not fair putting punk vs hardcore side by side, but Rock or Die, Rolling on the Duck, Road of Death along with NB Power/Returns were also definitive staples of the series.

Planetboom/Bexter were still pretty active, but when you compare Supersonic and Eternity (both songs which are kickass in their own right, mind you) to Get On Top, Starfish, Syriana (More funk than rock, but eh) something has just gone missing genre-wise. I guess on a brighter note Keys to the World, rushed or not, stands up to Brandnew Days.

We did have Zet and Mind Control, but again both of those went to Trilogy. BS only got the badly off-sync bastard child version of Real Over Drive instead.

[Glas]

it's 2:44am so im not going to give my analysis right now
but there's only 1 thing i can say

Brand new days > everything

[f3nr15]

Ultimately it's best they don't repeat too many songs across the games and of course offer different songs for the same genre.
But then Planetboom is one of my favourite composers.

Originally Posted by Baldfalk

(Electro Funk) Out Law vs Desperado

Out Law. I just want to get into camouflage gear when I play this song.
The preview of the Desperado song sounds like some guy on crack every time I scroll through the song list.

Originally Posted by Baldfalk

(RnB) Sunny Side vs (Acin (lol) House) Sweet Shining Shooting Star

OMG I love Sweet Shining Shooting Star.

Originally Posted by Baldfalk

(Pop/RnB) First Kiss vs Ask to Wind

Latter song is catchier to me.

Originally Posted by Baldfalk

(Hip Hop/Rap) JBG vs Mutu
SCREW OFF WHY IS THIS EVEN A COMPARISON JBG WINS. NEXT.

JBG, Fuck yes.
Finally a change of theme where JC isn't in a romantic song.

Originally Posted by Baldfalk

(Psy Trance) Hamsin vs Fermion

Hamsin screws with my ears I like it.

Originally Posted by Baldfalk

(Dance Pop) Remember vs Ladymade Star

Ladymade Star

Originally Posted by Baldfalk

(Guitar-driven Dance) Hello Pinky vs In My Heart

Both. So good in their own respect.

Originally Posted by Glas

it's 2:44am so im not going to give my analysis right now
but there's only 1 thing i can say

Brand new days > everything

playing that on HD difficulty is relacksing

[ㅎㅅㅎ]

i have to disagree with Remember vs. Ladymade Star. they would be much better if Remember was compared to Memoirs (which i personally call Remember Prologue) and Ladymade Star to Secret World (which i also personally call Ladymade Star part 2).