Ez2on Service will shutdown

[Alesix]

Originally Posted by Baldfalk

(Boy this is so amazingly off-topic now haha)

The Escapist : News : DJ Max Interview with Michael Yum of PM Studios




And the lawsuit:


Highlights mine. The part about green notes is amusing, though. :P

edit: Amidst all of this, I'm just going to reiterate that I'm not arguing pro-autocorrect. If anything, it makes the learning curve steeper, the game harder in some respects, and if nothing else should be toggleable.

It could be that:

1. Konami was and is still suing anyone who tries to make a good rhythm game, so Pentavision implemented the auto-correct feature as a preemptive move.

2. Konami already had private discussions with Pentavision but it did not turn not well, so, similarly, Pentavision added it as a preemptive move as well.

But what I think is the truth is this:

3. Konami and Pentavision used to be good friends. So in early December, when Pentavision had finish developing what they thought was an awesome rhythm game feature, they sent a demo to Konami...

Pentavision: Hey Konami, check out this new feature! It's called "auto-correction".
Konami: What's that?
Pentavision: It's a feature that allows you to 100% a 4K song with just one finger! Isn't that amazing?
Konami: WTF? Are you serious? You're gonna ruin the entire rhythm game experience with that shit.
Pentavision: Who cares? As long as it reels in more noobs out there to buy my games, it's great as it is. And every DJMAX player shall use it - it will be a mandatory feature!
Konami: I'm so gonna thwart your evil plan.
Pentavision: Too bad, pal. I have already started shipping Black Square, and the next Trilogy patch will include it as well, while modifying the dongles to ensure our dear players can't run the old, sans-auto-correction versions. Oh yes, it will be available on Fever as well. So whatcha' gonna do?
Konami: You're so gonna get it from me before Christmas...!

And Konami sued Pentavision under the pretext of patent infringement on December 24, 2008, hoping that it will stop the launch of Black Square and the fateful Trilogy patch before it's too late to save the world from the evil hands of Pentavision. Alas, Konami failed; the evil had triumphed over the good and all is lost.

GAME OVER.

[Troni]

Konami has a patent on any game that has a fixed key for each lane, like in Ez2dj and old Djmax titles, that's the only reason Penta put auto-correct.

[.Falk]

Again, where's the basis for that? Like I pointed out, the autocorrect feature was in the works long before any hint of a lawsuit abounded.

If you can provide a source that isn't speculation, I'll eat my words.

[Alesix]

Originally Posted by Troni

Konami has a patent on any game that has a fixed key for each lane, like in Ez2dj and old Djmax titles, that's the only reason Penta put auto-correct.

Originally Posted by Baldfalk

Again, where's the basis for that? Like I pointed out, the autocorrect feature was in the works long before any hint of a lawsuit abounded.

If you can provide a source that isn't speculation, I'll eat my words.

Take it easy, guys. Whether it's a fact or a speculation, auto-correction is here to stay like a scar on a beautiful face...and we're really, really off-topic here.

For those really interested, you can find the Korean patent (#294603) filed by Konami which is used against Pentavision in the 2008 lawsuit here:
KIPRIS :: Patent search
Perform a Number Search on "294603" and go to the second result.

[.Falk]

Eh, just so it's clear, after rereading some old Trilogy threads from various sources, autocorrect has been in Trilogy since very, very near the start. People mentioned it around 30th December (where release was 25th, only 5 days before).

I'm assuming you played on 1.00 for quite a bit before connecting online and patching?

(And yes, this really -is- offtopic, but while we're talking about halted music game projects and the forum isn't moving all that fast otherwise anyway, why not?)

[Alesix]

Originally Posted by Baldfalk

Eh, just so it's clear, after rereading some old Trilogy threads from various sources, autocorrect has been in Trilogy since very, very near the start. People mentioned it around 30th December (where release was 25th, only 5 days before).

I'm assuming you played on 1.00 for quite a bit before connecting online and patching?

(And yes, this really -is- offtopic, but while we're talking about halted music game projects and the forum isn't moving all that fast otherwise anyway, why not?)

Yep, I stayed on 1.00 for quite some time as I had network issues during updates back then.

[.Falk]

Well, so considering the dates we have:

-10/12 - Earliest public mention of autocorrect (Mike Yum's interview)
-24/12 - Lawsuit filed, Black Square released
-25/12 - Trilogy released, no autocorrect out of the box (1.00)
-(25-30)/12 - One of the ~16 patch versions introduce autocorrect to Trilogy

On the basis that
- regarding Trilogy it's a little short of a time (6 days at most) to implement/code/test/deploy a feature based on a lawsuit, plus investigations as to the finer details of the patent infringements and how to counter them (i.e. 1 button for 1 lane)
- it was in Black Square's design long before the lawsuit
- Clazziquai doesn't have it, hasn't had it throughout the Extended patch
- it's a really weak dodge vs any further legal bullets Konami wants to throw

I'm going to keep assuming the inclusion of autocorrect due to legal issues is nothing more than speculation.

[Troni]

Originally Posted by Baldfalk

Well, so considering the dates we have:

-10/12 - Earliest public mention of autocorrect (Mike Yum's interview)
-24/12 - Lawsuit filed, Black Square released
-25/12 - Trilogy released, no autocorrect out of the box (1.00)
-(25-30)/12 - One of the ~16 patch versions introduce autocorrect to Trilogy

On the basis that
- regarding Trilogy it's a little short of a time (6 days at most) to implement/code/test/deploy a feature based on a lawsuit, plus investigations as to the finer details of the patent infringements and how to counter them (i.e. 1 button for 1 lane)
- it was in Black Square's design long before the lawsuit
- Clazziquai doesn't have it, hasn't had it throughout the Extended patch
- it's a really weak dodge vs any further legal bullets Konami wants to throw

I'm going to keep assuming the inclusion of autocorrect due to legal issues is nothing more than speculation.

You seem to be forgetting that a game very similar to Djmax which has the same composers of Djmax was sued earlier and lost to konami, and is now dead.
Pentavision didn't have to wait until they were officially sued to include autocorrect, they took it as a precaution measure.

And I'm guessing Penta new that Konami was going to sue them before you and I did, those companies hold meetings to discuss those things, and sometimes the cases get settled before or out of court, like what happened with PUI, and early EZ2DJ the first time Konami sued them.

And by the way, do you have any other reasoning or speculation as to why they would add it other than the lawsuit? your not gonna tell me that they did it so the newbies can get better scores, are you?

[Alesix]

Originally Posted by Troni

You seem to be forgetting that a game very similar to Djmax which has the same composers of Djmax was sued earlier and lost to konami, and is now dead.
Pentavision didn't have to wait until they were officially sued to include autocorrect, they took it as a precaution measure.

And I'm guessing Penta new that Konami was going to sue them before you and I did, those companies hold meetings to discuss those things, and sometimes the cases get settled before or out of court, like what happened with PUI, and early EZ2DJ the first time Konami sued them.

And by the way, do you have any other reasoning or speculation as to why they would add it other than the lawsuit? your not gonna tell me that they did it so the newbies can get better scores, are you?

*Enters Konami mode* Hey, those were the three points I mentioned earlier. I'm gonna sue you for copyright infringement.

Originally Posted by LatecomerX

It could be that:

1. Konami was and is still suing anyone who tries to make a good rhythm game, so Pentavision implemented the auto-correct feature as a preemptive move.

2. Konami already had private discussions with Pentavision but it did not turn not well, so, similarly, Pentavision added it as a preemptive move as well.

But what I think is the truth is this:

3. Konami and Pentavision used to be good friends. So in early December, when Pentavision had finish developing what they thought was an awesome rhythm game feature, they sent a demo to Konami...

Pentavision: Hey Konami, check out this new feature! It's called "auto-correction".
Konami: What's that?
Pentavision: It's a feature that allows you to 100% a 4K song with just one finger! Isn't that amazing?
Konami: WTF? Are you serious? You're gonna ruin the entire rhythm game experience with that shit.
Pentavision: Who cares? As long as it reels in more noobs out there to buy my games, it's great as it is. And every DJMAX player shall use it - it will be a mandatory feature!
Konami: I'm so gonna thwart your evil plan.
Pentavision: Too bad, pal. I have already started shipping Black Square, and the next Trilogy patch will include it as well, while modifying the dongles to ensure our dear players can't run the old, sans-auto-correction versions. Oh yes, it will be available on Fever as well. So whatcha' gonna do?
Konami: You're so gonna get it from me before Christmas...!

And Konami sued Pentavision under the pretext of patent infringement on December 24, 2008, hoping that it will stop the launch of Black Square and the fateful Trilogy patch before it's too late to save the world from the evil hands of Pentavision. Alas, Konami failed; the evil had triumphed over the good and all is lost.

GAME OVER.

[.Falk]

Originally Posted by Troni

You seem to be forgetting that a game very similar to Djmax which has the same composers of Djmax was sued earlier and lost to konami, and is now dead.
Pentavision didn't have to wait until they were officially sued to include autocorrect, they took it as a precaution measure.

And I'm guessing Penta new that Konami was going to sue them before you and I did, those companies hold meetings to discuss those things, and sometimes the cases get settled before or out of court, like what happened with PUI, and early EZ2DJ the first time Konami sued them.

And by the way, do you have any other reasoning or speculation as to why they would add it other than the lawsuit? your not gonna tell me that they did it so the newbies can get better scores, are you?

Points taken. So what about Clazziquai?

Edit: Wanted to mention that some folks at Penta do come up with silly ideas as features. The green note is one, the muse-on controller (which is just a gigantic lawsuit waiting to happen) is another. I doubt either of those were thought up to avoid legal issues, either.

Basically regardless of how convincing the arguments you make, or how convincing the arguments I make, it's speculation on both sides of the argument. Unless either can really get an official source on this, this is going to go nowhere in a real hurry. Which is why I was asking if people knew something I didn't a few dozen posts back. I'm way too obsessed with the industry for my own good.

[Alesix]

Originally Posted by Baldfalk

Points taken. So what about Clazziquai?

Clazziquai was released about two months before Black Square, so we can infer that the auto-correction feature was only ready between that two months.

[Troni]

Originally Posted by LatecomerX

*Enters Konami mode* Hey, those were the three points I mentioned earlier. I'm gonna sue you for copyright infringement.

oops, I somehow missed that post earlier, please don't sue me.

[.Falk]

This is the part you develop a magic machine that reaches out of people's computers and grabs their mouse to correctly click on forum thread links, after which you get sued anyway and people start arguing over cause and effect a year down the road.

[Jewllama]

So basically ez2on is the next big korean only music game to die? Shit that didn't actually take that long, maybe Konami want to be like Apple, monopolizing their type of market (Apple = the i+word thing, Konami= Beatmania style music games) but this is just saddening, maybe the world will not come to an end and ez2on will become something like dj max trilogy where we DON'T need a KSSN to play.

[Flore L]

Originally Posted by GideonB

maybe Konami want to be like Microsoft, monopolizing their type of market

Fixed for you