Presidential Election 2008

[m335h73r of PBJ]

The naval academy is fucking simple to get into if you got the right connections.

which is what McCain has

[BITCH I LOOK LIKE GOKU]

Hey, so do I, but my butt got denied. I had a base commander, a wing commander, and a squadron commander all write me letters of recommendation to get in. Guess what? That wasn't enough to get me in.

Class rank comes into play, as does GPA, etc.

[cstarflare]

Rank? Like Admiral?

Two of them?

(that said he apparently did very well in his entrance exams and tbh with two admirals in the family I assume he didn't have much of a choice than to hit the books and get smrat)

[kimcicle]

Originally Posted by linkismyhero

And "Change We Can Believe In" isn't social pandering?

A slogan isn't pandering. Choosing a VP that is purely unfit of being a possible leader of the United States based on a demographic's vote is.

Originally Posted by linkismyhero

And yeah I know where Obama graduated from, what rank, blah. Education shouldn't mean shit. George was academically very well off, and look how many people hate him.

Too bad it does! Work ethic translates to all facets of life, so people that do well in school will usually translate to a better worker; why do you think GPA matters when trying to get into college / work field? Colleges try to get the best college candidates that they could. Why shouldn't we demand the best from our highest ranked public official?

Originally Posted by linkismyhero

Hey, so do I, but my butt got denied. I had a base commander, a wing commander, and a squadron commander all write me letters of recommendation to get in. Guess what? That wasn't enough to get me in.

Class rank comes into play, as does GPA, etc.

So naive. Your letters weren't written by millionaires or members of the good-old-boy network. His father was a well decorated, four star admiral in the United States Navy, eventually serving as Commander-In-Chief of the US Pacific Fleet during Vietnam. He's going to have much more pull into getting his son, who had only a 'undistinguished, but acceptable' high school career, into the Naval Academy versus people with only duty titles. I'm sure if you had the right hook ups you would be there instead of working at Gamestop~!

Let's assume that there are two separate people had the exact same past and exact same resume except for the education part. One graduated fifth from the bottom in class rank, 894th out of 899, while the other graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law School. Who the fuck do you think anybody doing any job hiring would take first?

[m335h73r of PBJ]

Originally Posted by linkismyhero

Hey, so do I, but my butt got denied. I had a base commander, a wing commander, and a squadron commander all write me letters of recommendation to get in. Guess what? That wasn't enough to get me in.

Class rank comes into play, as does GPA, etc.

Yeah, my Father was a Rear Admiral of the Navy back in the 80's.

My Grandfather was a Bridge Commander during WWII.

My Great Grandfather was Admiral of the Fleet back in WWI.

If I wanted to get in all I have to do is mention 2 last names and that they are related to me, and that has loads more pull than any senatorial/ non-relation letter recommendation.

Well that and the fact that I was in the CAP for about 3 years. So I already have a military background for myself.

I am pretty much set if I ever wanted to be in the military, it's too bad that I have literally no interest in serving in the armed forces, due to a conflict of ethics.

Also I failed every year of High School.

[BITCH I LOOK LIKE GOKU]

Originally Posted by kimcicle

A slogan isn't pandering. Choosing a VP that is purely unfit of being a possible leader of the United States based on a demographic's vote is.

That's YOUR opinion (and that of basically every other Democrat, hurr). I'd hate her too, if she was making it harder for me to win the election if I was a Democrat because THEY'RE DOING WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO. WHATEVER IT TAKES TO WIN.

Too bad it does! Work ethic translates to all facets of life, so people that do well in school will usually translate to a better worker; why do you think GPA matters when trying to get into college / work field? Colleges try to get the best college candidates that they could. Why shouldn't we demand the best from our highest ranked public official?

Because you can be as educated as you damn well please, and still not have the knowledge of the task at hand. You never stop learning. So while Obama knows all the shit he needed to know for graduation, he doesn't have the knowledge of government gained through many, many years of experience.

So naive. Your letters weren't written by millionaires or members of the good-old-boy network. His father was a well decorated, four star admiral in the United States Navy, eventually serving as Commander-In-Chief of the US Pacific Fleet during Vietnam. He's going to have much more pull into getting his son, who had only a 'undistinguished, but acceptable' high school career, into the Naval Academy versus people with only duty titles. I'm sure if you had the right hook ups you would be there instead of working at Gamestop~!

First off, I applied to the USAF Academy, not Naval. Sorry for not clarifying. The guys who recommended me were a 4-star General, 3-star General, and Colonel (all retired, making massive loads of cash, and all Alumni of the academy, in fact, the Colonel was a teacher AT the Academy). No matter what you say, it's going to take more than the "good-old-boy" network to get in.

Let's assume that there are two separate people had the exact same past and exact same resume except for the education part. One graduated fifth from the bottom in class rank, 894th out of 899, while the other graduated magna cum laude from Harvard Law School. Who the fuck do you think anybody doing any job hiring would take first?

Obviously, Harvard Law. But that's a pretty bad analogy, seeing as they have COMPLETELY DIFFERENT backgrounds pre-Senate.

[kimcicle]

Originally Posted by linkismyhero

That's YOUR opinion (and that of basically every other Democrat, hurr). I'd hate her too, if she was making it harder for me to win the election if I was a Democrat because THEY'RE DOING WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO. WHATEVER IT TAKES TO WIN.

So winning the presidential election is more important than protecting the best interests of the United States public? I'm not sure how you can say Palin is good for the American people; leaving a small town with 22 million in debt?

Heck this alone makes me wonder what everybody in your party is smoking: YouTube - CNN Laughs It Up Over Sarah Palin Interview

Originally Posted by linkismyhero

Obviously, Harvard Law. But that's a pretty bad analogy, seeing as they have COMPLETELY DIFFERENT backgrounds pre-Senate.

I believe that the pre-political backgrounds are important. So let's take for instance that their education wasn't a factor, let's sum up the rest of their lives before reaching politics.
McCain: Crashed a couple of planes, prisoner of war, cheated on his wife, worked for a multimillion beer distributor that his father-in-law ran, then ran for congress.
Obama: Persuaded by University of Chicago Law to write a book on race relations, taught constitutional law, founded Public Allies, sat on the boards of charitable foundations through Chicago, then ran for congress.

[BITCH I LOOK LIKE GOKU]

Originally Posted by kimcicle

So winning the presidential election is more important than protecting the best interests of the United States public? I'm not sure how you can say Palin is good for the American people; leaving a small town with 22 million in debt?

Heck this alone makes me wonder what everybody in your party is smoking: YouTube - CNN Laughs It Up Over Sarah Palin Interview

Palin's not running for President. She's running for VP. If you remember your Government class, you know that she doesn't have much real power (unless McCain dies).

And no, you took that out of context. During the elections, all the trash talking, all the dirt finding, all of that shit is going to be flying. All that your opinion is going to be based on is what party you support. Everything else is moot at that point.

I believe that the pre-political backgrounds are important. So let's take for instance that their education wasn't a factor, let's sum up the rest of their lives before reaching politics.
McCain: Crashed a couple of planes, prisoner of war, cheated on his wife, worked for a multimillion beer distributor that his father-in-law ran, then ran for congress.
Obama: Persuaded by University of Chicago Law to write a book on race relations, taught constitutional law, founded Public Allies, sat on the boards of charitable foundations through Chicago, then ran for congress.

We're gonna talk about past? Bernardine Dohrn.

[Electronic PF]

I'm sorry, I can't help butting in.

Originally Posted by linkismyhero

Palin's not running for President. She's running for VP. If you remember your Government class, you know that she doesn't have much real power (unless McCain dies).

How does that excuse anything? If she's unlikely to cause any real damage in office, it's suddenly okay for her to be a vote magnet with little evidence of being competent in politics?

Originally Posted by linkismyhero

During the elections, all the trash talking, all the dirt finding, all of that shit is going to be flying. All that your opinion is going to be based on is what party you support. Everything else is moot at that point.

I'm not sure if I really understand what you mean. Are you saying that instead of a.) supporting a particular party based on who they think agree with their views of society, people just b.) support the side that's sustained the least PR damage from the competition and defend it with whatever's available?

[BITCH I LOOK LIKE GOKU]

Originally Posted by GRAVLAX THE SHADOW FIEND

How does that excuse anything? If she's unlikely to cause any real damage in office, it's suddenly okay for her to be a vote magnet with little evidence of being competent in politics?

We could argue about experience all day. We're going to disagree on that. What I'm saying is that at the end of the day, the only thing you're ever really going to pay attention to is who the President is. (It's not a Vice Presidential election).

I'm not sure if I really understand what you mean. Are you saying that instead of a.) supporting a particular party based on who they think agree with their views of society, people just b.) support the side that's sustained the least PR damage from the competition and defend it with whatever's available?

No. I'm agreeing with viewpoint a, but adding to it saying that the logic defending a person's viewpoint is going to most likely COME FROM the PR damage.

[kimcicle]

Originally Posted by linkismyhero

Palin's not running for President. She's running for VP. If you remember your Government class, you know that she doesn't have much real power (unless McCain dies).

...who is seven times more likely to die in office than Obama. Just the possibility that she's one weak heartbeat away from the presidency should worry a LOT of people.

Originally Posted by linkismyhero

And no, you took that out of context. During the elections, all the trash talking, all the dirt finding, all of that shit is going to be flying. All that your opinion is going to be based on is what party you support. Everything else is moot at that point.

It didn't look like trash talk to me, it looked like your VP candidate floundering on national television on topics that most politicians would be ready to answer. Why is it that the McCain was proudly exclaiming that Obama had no experience, but all of the sudden got quiet about it when they brought Palin on the ticket?

Originally Posted by linkismyhero

We're gonna talk about past? Bernardine Dohrn.

Just because you have a "friendly relationship" with somebody doesn't mean automatically that your opinions become mirror copies of theirs. What if somebody that lived down McCain's street became a rapist; nobody is going to point fingers at McCain and call him a rapist by association if he maybe said hi to him at the post office or while jogging down the street.

[BITCH I LOOK LIKE GOKU]

Originally Posted by kimcicle

...who is seven times more likely to die in office than Obama. Just the possibility that she's one weak heartbeat away from the presidency should worry a LOT of people.

A lot of Democrats. Again, personal viewpoint.

It didn't look like trash talk to me, it looked like your VP candidate floundering on national television on topics that most politicians would be ready to answer. Why is it that the McCain was proudly exclaiming that Obama had no experience, but all of the sudden got quiet about it when they brought Palin on the ticket?

Did you watch the Republican convention? Because she went off on Obama's experience, comparing himself to her. So no, they haven't really been "quiet."

Just because you have a "friendly relationship" with somebody doesn't mean automatically that your opinions become mirror copies of theirs. What if somebody that lived down McCain's street became a rapist; nobody is going to point fingers at McCain and call him a rapist by association if he maybe said hi to him at the post office or while jogging down the street.

He was on the FBI's top 10 most wanted list. That's more than just your rapist down the street. Anyway...

I'm not calling Obama an extremist. I'm not saying he's an America hater based on the church he went to. I'm saying that if you're going to bring up someone's past, other people are going to be dragged into it. It's wrong, but it's going to happen. When someone's in politics, or even planning to go into politics, they have to be EXTREMELY careful about who they associate with. That's all I'm saying.

[SIR]

Originally Posted by linkismyhero

I'm not calling Obama an extremist. I'm not saying he's an America hater based on the church he went to. I'm saying that if you're going to bring up someone's past, other people are going to be dragged into it. It's wrong, but it's going to happen. When someone's in politics, or even planning to go into politics, they have to be EXTREMELY careful about who they associate with. That's all I'm saying.

Several things:

(1) If I recall correctly, that preacher wasn't saying things that were actually anti-American, he was saying that he was disgusted with the treatment of race issues in America and the fact that they still haven't been resolved.

If you're going to be going by what a "lot of Democrats" would do, then a problem with a lot of Republicans is the fact that they tend to dismiss any criticism of the white conservative population and the way they do things as being "anti-American". It's also why the Republican party hasn't been able to get the bulk of the minority vote.

(2) The crucial difference between Obama's history and McCain's is that the PR problems for Obama only have to do with what someone else he knows said; McCain's problems have to do with what the guy himself either did or is currently doing. The preacher's presentation of controversial views was outside of Obama's control, McCain had complete power over his economic and personal decisions that reflect poorly on him.

(3) It is not just Democrats that honestly really do not want to see Palin getting anywhere near office. I have seen an increasing number of conservative columnists and politicians pretty much begging Palin to step down for "family reasons". She is not prepared to take on the duty of president.

And, honestly? I would very likely vote Republican if the party would stop catering to religious nutcases and go back to being libertarian.

[m335h73r of PBJ]

If we're gonna bring up history of people and guilt by association, McCain was a genocidal tyrant and mass rapist.

My Lai Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And I don't give a shit mostly about history of people, but I DO give a shit about what their college educational backgrounds are.

[kimcicle]

Originally Posted by the

And, honestly? I would very likely vote Republican if the party would stop catering to religious nutcases and go back to being libertarian.

A-fucking-men. I personally do not have a party affiliation, as I think voting along party lines is stupid.

Even with all of this, I want to make one thing clear.
EVERYBODY NEEDS TO REGISTER TO VOTE. The deadline in some states is as close as the 4th of October. Visit Rock the Vote to find out how to register in your state. I don't care about your opinion on matters, nor who you're going to vote for. The important thing is getting out there and voting so that your voice is heard.

Also, watch the VP debate that's airing tonight. It should be very interesting.