Suppressed mothering instincts? (warning: long)

[Arkaaito]

I had the strangest experience today, and I felt like asking *someone* if they'd ever had something like this...

I went in to a pizza place, ordered, and sat down. After less than five minutes, this family - a young couple, an older couple (probably grandparents) and a little girl (around one year) - walked in. They seated themselves at the table next to me (not sure why - there was ample space elsewhere) and their kid promptly started squalling.

She wasn't THAT bad as squalling kids go, but the way she'd go back and forth between happy and wailing made me a bit uncomfortable, as I was already on edge. If her folks had been paying attention to her, trying to calm her down, that would be one thing... but the only person paying attention to her was the grandmother, and that only to calm her down one minute and egg her on the next.

Not-so-eventually, I flagged down the waitress and asked her to change my order to 'to go' - then I started gathering up my things. Then I leaned over and said, to the woman next to the child:

"You know, I don't think of myself as being very good with kids. But even I can tell when a child's ready to be taken to a restaurant and when she's not. Can't you?" I didn't really expect a reply, so I got up to leave.

They tittered. One of them said "what a psycho." Another one smirked and said, "Are we on candid camera?" That seems a bit exaggerated, but I guess they felt the need to defend their unruly-childful honor.

The grandmother, however, complained that if I couldn't tolerate children I "should never be in public." I gamely rose to the bait and said, "So everywhere I might go, I should expect to find YOUR child screaming?"

Now, at this point I would expect some nasty response about my character or something, and I did get those from the other people at the table. One of them came up with "SHE'LL never have children." Another one replied with "bet she doesn't even have a boyfriend." This is pretty much par for the course with people who are confronted about their children. But it's what the grandmother said that bothered me:

"She's NOT screaming - I can make her scream." And then she reached towards the child.

I wasn't kidding them (no pun) when I said I wasn't really a "kid" person. But at that moment, I felt like vaulting over the table, jumping between her and the child, and saying, "Don't you dare lay a hand on that girl. She's not a toy that you slap around when you feel impotent. She's a human being and if you want to hit something you can damn well try hitting me instead, because I can hit you right back." Or at least, "What the hell is wrong with you? You were just bitching about how she hadn't done anything remotely wrong. Now you're going to attack her for it?" And to the mother for good measure, "Don't you understand you have a moral obligation to keep people like this away from your children?"

Of course, I did none of those things. I turned away, said, "Boy - I'm so glad I have a better family than she does," and walked off. I didn't hear any slapping, arm-wrenching sounds, and I didn't hear the kid scream, so I'm assuming she didn't go through with it. And at this moment I'm telling myself that she was just making a hollow threat, that she wouldn't really do something like that to a helpless little kid just because of some stranger in a restaurant. I'm telling myself that didn't mean anything and that actions don't always mirror words and that just because she made like she was going to hurt the kid doesn't mean she actually would in a million years. But I still feel the urge to protect that little girl, and I'm glad I don't know their names because then I would feel an obligation to report them to CPS.

Have you guys ever found yourself in this place - of wanting to bodily fend off the people who menace small children? Have you given into the temptation, and how did it go?

[I AM THE PROPHECY.]

children should be beaten with extension cords for fifteen minutes a day whether they're doing something wrong or not

[Arkaaito]

Ah, Madroll, I can always count on you to give me some perspective on my life.

You're like Charlie Chaplin in that regard. Or are you like Hitler?

[Hortence:The Muleface Mod]

Originally Posted by Arkaaito

Ah, Madroll, I can always count on you to give me some perspective on my life.

You're like Charlie Chaplin in that regard. Or are you like Hitler?

Godwin's law has kicked in early on this discussion!

[m335h73r of PBJ]

I find it hilarious that the people who were beaten as kids were able to straighten up and do very well with their lives, as opposed to their pacifist (re:Pussy) counterparts who lived a life of getting all they want and then leaving home to find that they don't know shit about the real world.

[Evi]

Walking away from a situation you feel is wrong, is never the right way to go. I work at a supermarket, where I see literally thousands of people every day, and at least once a day, I see people doing things they're not supposed to, leaving children free to do unruly things, etc, and I always speak up. As long as you conduct yourself in a civilized manner and don't turn to petty insults like most other people do, you're doing nothing wrong. Even if they try to make a scene, most people are going to be on your side anyway.

[I AM THE PROPHECY.]

Originally Posted by Arkaaito

Ah, Madroll, I can always count on you to give me some perspective on my life.

You're like Charlie Chaplin in that regard. Or are you like Hitler?

i never ever fakepost under any circumstances whatsoever so i guess i'm way closer too hitler huh

[DjRandom]

Seriously: I wasn't ever beaten (spanked occasionally) I'm fine but I can't stand these parents that just give the kid whatever they fucking want if they scream about it, if it were my kid get a nice no one can see you beating . Last time I saw someone with a kid that was screaming was at an arcade, kid was screaming parent wasn't around I got off the DDR machine helped her find her mom, mom didn't care said thanks then cursed at the kid.... I lost it told her off and made sure she wouldn't do it again. That just pisses me off, Ark I would have done alot worse in that position so don't feel too bad. (I'm a guy for the record so yeah, fatherly not motherly instincts here )

[Arkaaito]

Originally Posted by Dewgy

Godwin's law has kicked in early on this discussion!

I don't think it counts if it's an obscure reference to the way everyone mis-recognizes his sig picture. (Or used to. I distinctly remember that his sig used to say, "No! It's not Hitler!")

Originally Posted by Evi

Walking away from a situation you feel is wrong, is never the right way to go. I work at a supermarket, where I see literally thousands of people every day, and at least once a day, I see people doing things they're not supposed to, leaving children free to do unruly things, etc, and I always speak up. As long as you conduct yourself in a civilized manner and don't turn to petty insults like most other people do, you're doing nothing wrong. Even if they try to make a scene, most people are going to be on your side anyway.

Your optimism about human nature is refreshing... now if only I can assimilate that before my day starts tomorrow.

[ellipse]

The above incident goes to show that most parents these days totally suck at parenting.

I don't remember hearing about ADD 30 years ago. . .

[Victamone]

You can take this how you want it.. and I am not trying to be mean or start an argument by saying this but..Would you consider yourself a quiet person? Because there are things in this story that I dont get. There are certain things you should have put into perspective.

• First of all, if the kid was bothering you why didn't you just get up and move away as your stated "there were other seats around". That family would have probably apologized, unless they were the freakin anti-christ.
• What was the point of telling someone how to raise their own daughter? How do you know for a fact that it's the mothers fault that the baby wouldn't stop crying? Children are unpredictable maybe it was just moody or hungry. You never know with children.
• If that lady was going to hit that child, then why didn't you stand up for yourself and that child and say something. You didn't prove any points to that lady by just walking away.
• Should have kicked her in the throat.

edit: Oh and I just wanted to say I didn't mean to sound mean at all. I still think you handled the situation pretty well.

[ChaosMaster1]

Originally Posted by MDRL

children should be beaten with extension cords for fifteen minutes a day whether they're doing something wrong or not

why stop at extension cords? i would put barbwire on them =/

[Arkaaito]

Originally Posted by Victamone

You can take this how you want it.. and I am not trying to be mean or start an argument by saying this but..Would you consider yourself a quiet person? Because there are things in this story that I dont get. There are certain things you should have put into perspective.

A quiet person? No, not usually. In certain respects I generally know better than to open my mouth, because I'm just going to take abuse - like telling my mother why she should notify me when my letters come to her house rather than hiding them, or pointing out the misbehavior of others' children. But occasionally I try opening my mouth anyway, with bad results. This is not actually the most egregious reaction I've gotten when complaining about a kid - just the only one that completely jumped the logic barrier and threatened to hurt the kid while simultaneously asserting the kid's angelic qualities.

First of all, if the kid was bothering you why didn't you just get up and move away as your stated "there were other seats around". That family would have probably apologized, unless they were the freakin anti-christ.

I could have moved to the side room (they were in the middle of the 3x3 table front room), and I thought about doing so, since it was unoccupied. However, to put it in perspective, I began finding her disruptive at the 15-minute mark. Meals at this place usually last 60 to 90 minutes. There's always a chance that they would have started paying more attention to her once they got their food, for some reason... but I didn't think it was too likely, and frankly, I'm too lazy to want to keep moving around through my entire meal or relocate once or twice just to leave anyway.

What was the point of telling someone how to raise their own daughter? How do you know for a fact that it's the mothers fault that the baby wouldn't stop crying? Children are unpredictable maybe it was just moody or hungry. You never know with children.

Eh, maybe I've been spoiled (no pun) by only associating with very well-behaved kids, but in my experience the mother can usually "just tell" when a kid is ready to be taken out to a restaurant. This was a little girl, maybe about a year old, and the average meal time at this place is an hour or more - not an undertaking for the faint of heart.

The reason I assumed it was the family's fault was because they were alternately ignoring her and teasing her (with more emphasis on the ignoring). If they had been trying to calm her down or actively interacting with her, I would have assumed that they were just inexperienced and/or she was an unpredictable child and/or she was having a bout of colic and/or...

My personal biases also play a role here - I think it's unfair to a one-year-old to take her somewhere and strap her down for an hour only to ignore her.

I said something because so many people seem never to think at all that they're inconveniencing both the other patrons and their children, and I'm tired of simply sitting and taxing my nerves of adamantium. Periodically I speak up when someone does something I find really egregious in this regard. The reaction I got is pretty much the reaction I always get - "screw you, people without children are just defective so you don't matter" - but the sudden threat to the child was completely new on me.

If that lady was going to hit that child, then why didn't you stand up for yourself and that child and say something. You didn't prove any points to that lady by just walking away.
Should have kicked her in the throat.

Perhaps. Now, in the warm glow of hindsight, I sort of regret not taking the more confrontational approach. But I was going off something I've been told several times over my life - if someone is threatening, abusing or attacking someone for unknown reasons, intervene, but if they're doing it to "prove a point" to you, just walk away. They'll lose interest, at least in the short-term (and you probably can't do anything about the long-term anyway).

OTOH, maybe I was just being a wuss. If I'd stuck around, I would have had to wait for her to be physically violent to the child before I could do anything without getting myself thrown in prison. And sitting and waiting for someone to hurt a child - then feeling bad that I didn't prevent it - is NOT on my top ten list of fun pastimes.

edit: Oh and I just wanted to say I didn't mean to sound mean at all. I still think you handled the situation pretty well.

Dude, don't worry about sounding mean. I made this post in part because I didn't know how to feel about how I handled the situation, and I was looking for input that might help me deal with it better in the future. (In part I just wanted some reassurance that people like this are rare.)

Ack. Long post. This is becoming a Myspace thread or something.

[karppa]

All in all, kids are unpredictable. Of course, spoiling a kid will do a person no good (I've dealt with too many spoiled kids). I've also dealt with kids and teenagers who run the house, controlling the mother, father and aunt like puppets (during my visit to Spokane, Washington). Then there are those kids who respect and love their parents, and help around the house, who aren't spoiled and didn't even require discipline (of course, that's rare). I myself have been disciplined physically, and it did me a lot of good, since I knew better than to do stupid things. Kids that are spoiled and get away with things without discipline usually don't know the difference between right and wrong, thus they do bad things with no regard to concequence. Then of course, there's abuse. It's one thing to physically discipline a kid, but to beat them to near death for a wrong doing will get anyone not only nowhere, but in jail and having to deal with DSS or something. In the case of the little girl, perhaps she was just spoiled and wanted attention, or maybe she wanted something but couldn't say it because she was in fact, 1 year old, and at that age, kids can't normally talk. I know where you're coming from, seeing as I had to deal with kids at work too. Sometimes I wonder "how the hell do these people let their kids get away with the shit they do?", while other times I ask "how can these parents abuse these kids?". In all reality, even though we want to do something, there's usually little to nothing we can do, seeing as we can only assume things and never know exactly what goes on behind closed doors, so to speak. I'm probably leading this post off the subject so I'll end it saying, "I think you handled the situation to the best of your ability. However, the parents and grandmother were just to ignorant to even want to listen to you". I hope my opinion is of some importance. If not, then I vanish like a ninja! ::poof::

[m335h73r of PBJ]

Originally Posted by ChaosMaster1

why stop at extension cords? i would put barbwire on them =/

Hey now, you're on to something here.