okay. here's what I think.

[Eshmasesh]

The NeXuS thread generated quite a lot of discussion. I liked reading it a lot! although, there were people getting angry and shit, but I think I have a resolution to it.

The thread was closed because it was 'going nowhere' and that 'Any further software discussion can be had in the software discussion thread'. I suppose I can agree with the latter part, but not the former. I believe there was not enough discussion on the topic, and that's why it seemed like it was going nowhere. There was no resolution.

So, here's my take on it. There were three disctinct positions in the argument.

1. Electronic music is like composing an orchestral arrangement. You have instrumentation which you can work with, and focus on compositional structure, notation, dynamics, etc. is paramount.

2. Electronic music is different from orchestral music because, unlike in older times, digitalization has given us complete control over our instrumentation. Focus on the quality of each individual noise is paramount.

Now, I personally align more with the second option. To me, the timbre of a piece is the most important and I focus on it intently in everything I listen to. Even if it's not traditionally 'musical' (I listen to Noise/Power Electronics/etc). I personally don't like music theory very much.

But, I must admit that there is a third option which, I think, only k//eternal touched on.

3. Both aspects are important. As he said, we have an 'unprecedented level of control' over our sound. As peacemaker said, 'music is a great deal like painting'. You can build up, tear down and mix sounds together in more intuitive ways than ever before like a painter does with coloration. However, in most pieces of art, coloration isn't the sole focus. There is also the structure of the subject matter itself. You can have art without structure just as you can have music without structure (this leads to very abstract pieces), but that does not make coloration/timbre more unique or difficult than composition. The thing that k//eternal touched on, is that 'nobody is going to say the classical greats suffered significantly for such a thing'.

Both aspects are important. What we choose to focus on is personal and unique for each track.








My two cents. The other thread generated quite a bit of discussion, and I see no reason why that should stop!

[DM Ashura]

. . . amazingly well put, Eshy.

Helix, you closed the thread way too early, and honestly that came off as just making sure that the point that you agreed with was the "last word." That's kind of a dick move.

I think that we can keep this thread going as well. BUT LET'S KEEP IT CIVIL, PEOPLE. This should be a discussion, not a flamewar.

. . . as for me, I personally ascribe more to the first opinion that Eshy laid out. I come from an orchestral background, having played viola in my high school orchestra for the entire time I was there, and absolutely LOVING it. (I need to pick up my viola again, really.) Although I do plan to learn more about synth creation and making my own sounds, for me, the most important part of the music isn't the sounds that make it up but the notes and chords that are played. I care less about painstakingly crafting a unique synth and more about sweeping people's emotions with suspensions and 9th chords. (LOVE. THOSE. NINTH. CHORDS. OMG.)

The way I see it everybody has their own priorities when it comes to making music, their own strengths and weaknesses. But it doesn't give anybody the right to tell the other that they're WRONG for their preference.

[Ryi]

TBH, I really don't see why people complain about artists using Nexus presets when there's Rihanna and Usher gaining international stardom using stock loops from Garageband (the beat for "Umbrella", the synths in "Love In This Club"... all loops).

[WEABOO]

The reason the last thread didnt work is because you have people comparing use of Romplers to bar raping, and going so far as to say that people who use romplers or basically anything they deem "cheating" are not real musicians.

The whole thread starts off on a hostile note, "Fuck Nexus". Essentially, it was flamebait, and while filterchild probably didnt mean for it to come off that way, its what it lead to. I'm all for constructed opinions, but when you compare people's music (including mine) to bar raping, with all due respect, fuck you

^^^ an obvious reference to the original thread's title, I'm not being hostile people

[Eshmasesh]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

The reason the last thread didnt work is because you have people comparing use of Romplers to bar raping, and going so far as to say that people who use romplers or basically anything they deem "cheating" are not real musicians.

The whole thread starts off on a hostile note, "Fuck Nexus". Essentially, it was flamebait, and while filterchild probably didnt mean for it to come off that way, its what it lead to. I'm all for constructed opinions, but when you compare people's music (including mine) to bar raping, with all due respect, fuck you

which is why I made this thread =3 I liked reading the opinions because it lead me to this conclusion but I can live without ze drama.

Originally Posted by Ryi

TBH, I really don't see why people complain about artists using Nexus presets when there's Rihanna and Usher gaining international stardom using stock loops from Garageband (the beat for "Umbrella", the synths in "Love In This Club"... all loops).

i agree. To provide another example, tons of house music is largely composed of sampling parts from old disco tunes, looping them and laying percussion on top. I don't find Le Knight Club unoriginal at all.

[DM Ashura]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

with all due respect, fuck you

Cálmate, hijo.

[KgZ]

So what if people use presets? Each sound is like an instrument. If I told someone not to use a certain sound, that's like telling someone not to use a piano, or flute, or anything. Also, if the preset is already made for what you want, why bother?

Originally Posted by DM Ashura

the most important part of the music isn't the sounds that make it up but the notes and chords that are played. I care less about painstakingly crafting a unique synth and more about sweeping people's emotions with suspensions and 9th chords. (LOVE. THOSE. NINTH. CHORDS. OMG.)

Pretty much agree with everything here.

Also, the man knows his chords

[WEABOO]

Originally Posted by DM Ashura

Cálmate, hijo.

Edited for you

and to make things clear, the production is as important as the notes and chords. You could have written the next trance hit but if your kick is underpowered and your synths are too loud, non of that matters.

[KgZ]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

and to make things clear, the production is as important as the notes and chords. You could have written the next trance hit but if your kick is underpowered and your synths are too loud, non of that matters.

True, but here is what I think.

Production can only get you so far. If your music has a boring melody with a generic chord progression, it's only going to be decent, at best. The jump from a good song to a great song is all based upon the melody and chords.

[Eshmasesh]

Originally Posted by The Chemist

Edited for you

oh. You are so witty

[WEABOO]

Which is why production is just as important as notes and chords.

In a nutshell: It's all important. The methods of getting there however, aren't

Originally Posted by Eshmasesh

oh. You are so witty

Hey I try

[aether]

Originally Posted by KgZ

True, but here is what I think.

Production can only get you so far. If your music has a boring melody with a generic chord progression, it's only going to be decent, at best. The jump from a good song to a great song is all based upon the melody and chords.

I attended a few seminars in the summer. One was hosted by a panel of local writers, who included Jim Vallance (Bryan Adam's guy). They were talking about arrangement and production, and how Heaven has been done a million and one times. Out of it, he sound something very simple yet incredibly profound:

"If people can hum a song, or pick up a guitar and start singing it in their living room, then you have a hit song."

[-Peacemaker-]

I think people have a tendency to focus on one aspect or another of making music and forget that they are all tied together.

Whatever your viewpoint is, you really can't be wrong, because both sides of it are really damn important. Whichever side you identify with more, that's good for you.
But one can't really exist without the other except in pure abstracts (sheet music, soundscapes, etc.).

Also minor9ths are perfection

[helix eternal]

Me locking the other topic was hardly a dick move when it was starting to turn into shit. The topic was completely useless in the first place, and I only left it open just because I knew it would generate some activity here. I locked it because my moderator senses told me it was going to hell and if I didn't stop it then, I'd have to come back to a complete mess of poop when I came back from my hiatus (I was out of state).

The simple fact of the matter is, people do, and always will, use presets and loops. Other people will want to invent their own sounds or try to use sounds in a way nobody else has before. Chances are, somebody already has and you just haven't heard of them. There are millions of ways to make a track unique.

Yes, production is important.

Yes, the notes/chords/melodies/etc are important.

Yes, the sounds you use are important.

No, you do not have to know how to do everything yourself. This is why many electronic acts consist of multiple people (some who make sounds, some who mix/master, some who write melodies and lyrics, etc etc), or have a sound engineer that mixes and masters for them, or uses presets that a sound designer made because it happens to be the particular sound they want, and so on.

Today's music industry makes it bleedingly obvious that you do not need talent to make it big. All you need is good marketing and/or connections in the industry.

We should all just respect each other for trying. Some people do this for the art, some do it as a hobby, some do it for the money, some do it for other reasons. Whatever your reason, don't spit on other people because they don't do it the way you do. That's just shitty.

[too sexy for this club]

well, the whole "you don't need talent to make it big" thing is applicable in almost any industry, but i'm not sure this thread is so much questioning how things are (since you can't deny obvious realities) but how things should be

there are lots of things that sell in the world that i think are junk but i wouldn't ever question that they do well as a product, only whether they should

(some people kind of fail at that, see console fanboys)