Thread on High-Definition TVs

[Blackraven]

There hasn't been an HDTV thread so far here in BM 7.5 so might as well make one instead.

I'll start off:

1) LCD

2) Plasma

3) OLED


LCD
Pros:
-cheaper to produce
-relatively low energy consumption
-can be produced in smaller sizes
-replacement of backlight is an easy process
Cons:
-black levels on older gen models are not satisfactory
-cannot handle SD that well
-some LCDs have poor motion capabilties
-screen is easier to get damaged by young children (?)

Plasma
Pros:
-Strong black levels
-Motion capbility is much better
-First to support 24 fps/hz mode (refresh rate of movies)
Cons:
-Older models suffered from burn-in/image retention
-more energy-consuming (though this issue is being addressed by panel makers)
-plasma gas module cannot be replaced after full life
-costs more(?)
-cannot be produced in smaller sizes due to yields perhaps
-green phosphor lag???

OLED
Pros:
-Emerging tech
-Black levels are GODLIKE (easily matches the latest LCD, Plasma and RPTV sets)
-motion is fluid with accuarcy and precision (accomplished during prototype stage)
-thinness of screen
-lightweight
-really energy efficient
-color reproduction is vivid and vibrant
-contrast ratios are MONSTROUS
Cons:
-Currently expensive to produce though R&D and yield improvements help fix this
-production facilties not up to scale yet
-screen sizes are still in the sub 20 inch teritorry
-cost is still exorbitant (though these will drop by the coming of the next decade)
-lifetime of blue phosphors and blue materials still at 30k hours (plasma & LCD are @ 60k hours)

There are other HDTV tech out there as well. You have RPTV but it's fat, takes space and color wheel problems make it look shitty. You have FP type display tech but it's not that interesting beyond movie theater applications. Then you have SED, but Toshiba killed it believeing that Canon could save this tech from extinction but is now facing litigation and court cases. So yeah, no point discussing on these.

I forgot about FED though (which Sony is also heavily promoting) but I dunno much about it yet. But if you have info about it, then pls share it with us

That said, welcome again to the HDTV thread here at BM 7.5

[DeusExMachina]

I suppose this saves me the trouble of wikipedia-ing this stuff up

[Blackraven]

Originally Posted by DeusExMachina

I suppose this saves me the trouble of wikipedia-ing this stuff up

Yes you're correct.

-----------------------

I guess this thread has its use after all. Nevertheless I do admit that I'm not the best expert in regards to HDTVs and their respective tech (and I'm not an Electrical Engineer so I have no experience regarding electronic circuitry). This is why I'm also humbly requesting for the help of those who are in-the-know regarding stuff for those who know about the tech terms (ie. 3:2 pulldown, 5:5:3 cadence, 1:1 pixel mapping, sample and hold, etc.)

Nevertheless, I will try my best to answer as many questions as I can correctly based on what I know (and on what is being discussed on AVS forums).

With that said, keep the posts coming

[WiLLiSTER]

I've been more of a fan of lcd monitors which generally tend to give a better picture, better response times, etc etc, though they tend to be smaller.

[raven_tkar]

I dont have a TV, instead i have a 24" LCD with component and HDMI input.

but i dont watch tv or play any consoles anymore anyway >______________>

[DeusExMachina]

Actually I do have a question in regards to HDTVs, hoping our HDTV guru here can solve

I am looking to buy a 50 inch plasma screen TV. In japan they cost about 4000 dollars USD equivalent and in the US I found one for 1900. So I think I am going to pay 600 dollars to freight a 1900 dollar TV and save 1500 dollars. Although both countries are NTSC, I don't know if the horizontal and vertical picture sync timing signal is taken from the 60 hz AC power in the wall socket for US TVs. That is a problem because japan uses 50 hz AC and that could potentially cause broadcasted channels on cable or satellite to not work. Bottom line question, can you watch japanese TV with a US TV?

[Blackraven]

Originally Posted by DeusExMachina

Actually I do have a question in regards to HDTVs, hoping our HDTV guru here can solve

I am looking to buy a 50 inch plasma screen TV. In japan they cost about 4000 dollars USD equivalent and in the US I found one for 1900. So I think I am going to pay 600 dollars to freight a 1900 dollar TV and save 1500 dollars. Although both countries are NTSC, I don't know if the horizontal and vertical picture sync timing signal is taken from the 60 hz AC power in the wall socket for US TVs. That is a problem because japan uses 50 hz AC and that could potentially cause broadcasted channels on cable or satellite to not work. Bottom line question, can you watch japanese TV with a US TV?

Hokkaido and terirtorries on the east side use 50hz while places like in Nagoya and Okinawa use 60hz. Thus, all electronic devices there are required to support 50hz-60hz of the 100V-120V. In Japan, support for like 200-240V is an option thus only few autovolt devices exist there (ie. Sony PS3 Japan-made version).

In any case, I personally don't believe that the difference between 50 hertz and 60 hertz cycles is that big where it will affect the actual operation of an electronic device. For instance, the SN1 machine that my cousin bought two years ago when it was brand new then was MADE IN JAPAN by KONAMI JAPAN. I checked the label myself:
220 Volts @ 50 hertz



Problem is that the Philippines uses 220V @ 60hz (based on USA socket dimensions). Though we tried it in, and fortunately, there was no problem. No flickering, no screen issues, no issues with the unit at all.

Again I may not be an electrical engineer (though if there are any on this forum, pls. correct any points I have in my post) but from what I observe, I don't think there is any difference as it is too small (unlike the huge difference between PAL and NTSC 480 versus 576).

-----------------------------------

In any case, I don't think there will be much problem if you decide to import at TV from Japan. Electricity wise, you won't have problems there. Instead, you may encounter problems with the digital tuner system there (Japan uses ISDB-T;North American teritorries use ATSC).

One suggestion that I may have for you is if you're buying a TV from overseas, better to buy Asian versions of it. I mean you have nothing to lose: Autovolt (100-240V 50/60hz), multi-system analog tuner (PAL/NTSC/SECAM), more language options, etc.) We also sell a few TV sets with integrated digital tuners (mostly from Samsung) but problem is that the tuners use DVB (the European standard).

So thus, you need to purchase a seperate digital TV tuner if you want to access local TV content. As for accessing JDM content (if you get a Jap unit), well......if you're good at this stuff, then it may just work (though I don't know if BS systems have security verificators like those used in American Cablecard systems).

From what I know

[raven_tkar]

Originally Posted by Blackraven

Again I may not be an electrical engineer (though if there are any on this forum, pls. correct any points I have in my post) but from what I observe, I don't think there is any difference as it is too small (unlike the huge difference between PAL and NTSC 480 versus 576).

Im still a young student, but i think the only real difference youd see from 50 to 60hz in the DC power is the ripple frequency which should be pretty well smoothed out anyway (otherwise though youd see more of it). If something in there was actually running off AC power, well, youd probably experience some problems. Other than that the AC noise frequency would be a little different? If a power supply had some really beefy capacitors it could probably run at 30 hz as well as it could 60. Dont try it though! the entire 240v/120v thing is a lot more important because that ends up in shit blowing up.

[Blackraven]

Originally Posted by raven_tkar

Im still a young student, but i think the only real difference youd see from 50 to 60hz in the DC power is the ripple frequency which should be pretty well smoothed out anyway (otherwise though youd see more of it). If something in there was actually running off AC power, well, youd probably experience some problems. Other than that the AC noise frequency would be a little different? If a power supply had some really beefy capacitors it could probably run at 30 hz as well as it could 60. Dont try it though! the entire 240v/120v thing is a lot more important because that ends up in shit blowing up.

Hmm.....interesting thought. On the main point that most eletronic devices use AC (and not direct current), then....................I dunno. If however the diff. between 50hz and 60hz were so big (as in big enough to cause electrical and/or operation problems) then.............I don't know. Though if it is a problem, the SN1 machine which is a 50hz-powered device is not showing it on our Philippine 60hz electricity.

So I guess that one is safe.:

So I guess you're saying then that the 50hz-60hz thing is not much of a thing to worry about, is it then? It's the mains power/voltage that's more important.

If I have more time, I'll try my best to research and learn more about it.

Thank god "modern" computer power supplies are autovolt. All of the products that I see from the likes Cooler Master, Thermaltake and Enermax all support this.

Even up to those power supplies that have 1000 WATTS AND BEYOND, those units can still run on any AC socket (100V-240V 50/60hz). Same with the Sony PS3.........although I don't know why Sony states in the box and manual that it only supports one (which is that of the region it's being marketed to).

[raven_tkar]

Most of the electronics im aware of run off of DC, though things like CRTs run off of a type of AC (sawtooth, for the flyback transformer [thing that creates like 25kv and is really fun to dick around with]) but afterward that signal is converted to DC anyway. im pretty sure anything digital uses DC

also the 100-120v lines can give double the current before tripping so it can supply the same amount of wattage for those assholes who need to dump 1000 watts into their computer (PS, NO YOU DONT). its 120v and 20 amps in america, right?

[BITCH I LOOK LIKE GOKU]

My tube just went boom on me, and now I'm looking at getting a 32" HDTV.

My primary concern is lag with games like IIDX and Rock Band. Any recommendations guys?

[dieKatze88]

Someone explain why everything has a different contrast ratio and how that effects things.

[Blackraven]

Originally Posted by dieKatze88

Someone explain why everything has a different contrast ratio and how that effects things.

Some say that the contrast ratio lies in the quality of your light source in handling full white to full black. Basically a higher contrast ratio allows for the range of white to be extended while also allowing the scale of black to reach full darkness or "pitch-black" state. Perhaps to give a specific example, when Sony released their first BRAVIA TV sets, contrast ratio was around 7,000:1 (dynamic) yet even with that, it's black levels were not up to standard which left plasmas with an advantage to steal. Yet after three years, Sony released their first OLED TV to the public......which had a 1,000,000:1 contrast ratio. The difference alone between this and the older generation HDTV product is unbelievable and the black levels say so. OLED's ability to fully disable its backlighting pixels in dark scenes enabled it to produce black color so well (and as dark as ebony or pitch-black) where not even LCD can fully turn off its CCFL backlight (at most, it can only dim). See the diff.

It is said that through contrast ratio increases through new models that come out.

Be advised though that it is NOT advisable to compare contrast ratios of products between different manufacturers as their methods of measuring contrast ratios maybe different than the other companies. You can use it though for measuring products coming from the SAME manufacturer.

There are two ways of measuring contrast ratio:
1) Full on/full off
2) ANSI contrast

It's kind of the same principle as to how you measure response time (though some makers cheat by showing grey-to-gray instead of black-to-white-to-black).

[dieKatze88]

Originally Posted by Blackraven

Some say that the contrast ratio lies in the quality of your light source in handling full white to full black. Basically a higher contrast ratio allows for the range of white to be extended while also allowing the scale of black to reach full darkness or "pitch-black" state. Perhaps to give a specific example, when Sony released their first BRAVIA TV sets, contrast ratio was around 7,000:1 (dynamic) yet even with that, it's black levels were not up to standard which left plasmas with an advantage to steal. Yet after three years, Sony released their first OLED TV to the public......which had a 1,000,000:1 contrast ratio. The difference alone between this and the older generation HDTV product is unbelievable and the black levels say so. OLED's ability to fully disable its backlighting pixels in dark scenes enabled it to produce black color so well (and as dark as ebony or pitch-black) where not even LCD can fully turn off its CCFL backlight (at most, it can only dim). See the diff.

It is said that through contrast ratio increases through new models that come out.

Be advised though that it is NOT advisable to compare contrast ratios of products between different manufacturers as their methods of measuring contrast ratios maybe different than the other companies. You can use it though for measuring products coming from the SAME manufacturer.

There are two ways of measuring contrast ratio:
1) Full on/full off
2) ANSI contrast

It's kind of the same principle as to how you measure response time (though some makers cheat by showing grey-to-gray instead of black-to-white-to-black).

So bring my PSP and connection cables to best buy and output a test image and find the best picture. Thanks.

[Blackraven]

Originally Posted by dieKatze88

So bring my PSP and connection cables to best buy and output a test image and find the best picture. Thanks.

Well yeah, I guess that's probably one way to do it.

Unless someone else has other suggestion......

Oh and something to add, another way to acess the highest potential of your contrast ratio is via ISF calibration.