120hz tvs & IIDX?

zoglog · 08-18-2008, 12:38 PM

Hmmmm, I just got a 120hz set (samsung 46A750) and i've noticed some random stuttering while playing gold on the ps2. Basically the notes will move smoothly and they will start to stutter a bit and it dissapears, I've toggled all the Autio Motion Plus modes but nothing seems to work.

anyone w/ one of these 120hz samsung sets knows a fix?

EMAGDNIM · 08-18-2008, 04:08 PM

First things first, if Samsung is still using that stupid DNIe, turn that OFF.

Second, do the notes look like they are scrolling smooth and then "jump"?

zorahk · 08-18-2008, 04:27 PM

Yeah, they use DNIe, make sure it's off.
Then set it to game mode, and turn off automatic contrast adjust

zoglog · 08-18-2008, 04:29 PM

k I'm pretty sure DNie is turned off, but yeah they seem to get blurry (not quite sure if they jump) in intervals.

but yeah i'll double check again.

And game mode did seem to work best, however It wouldnt let me change any contrast/brightness settings and it was just waaaay too bright.

Jeff Paine · 08-18-2008, 05:15 PM

Turn off 120hz mode (Auto Motion Plus), all that does is make extra frames that don't actually exist. 120hz TVs are mainly for playing 1080p24 content without 3:2 pulldown

Blackraven · 08-18-2008, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UseMyExciter

Turn off 120hz mode (Auto Motion Plus), all that does is make extra frames that don't actually exist. 120hz TVs are mainly for playing 1080p24 content without 3:2 pulldown

Apparently, this guy has a point.

Your main concern is not about telecine judder since your content is not a film or a movie (which is recorded in 24fps) so that won't fix the problem.

zoglog · 08-18-2008, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UseMyExciter

Turn off 120hz mode (Auto Motion Plus), all that does is make extra frames that don't actually exist. 120hz TVs are mainly for playing 1080p24 content without 3:2 pulldown

you can't actually turn off the 120hz mode, the panel is naively refreshed at that speed.

you can turn off AMP however which is the dejudder, and I tried it on all AMP modes including off w/ the same effect.

I think i'll try rockband and see if I get the same effect.
hmm just checked rockband, everything's fine with that, maybe it has something to do with 480i and being interlaced..

ΩOMEGAΩ · 08-19-2008, 02:13 AM

Rock Band is supported in higher resolutions, beatmania however I am pretty sure is not, so you wont get the same problem.

Blackraven · 08-22-2008, 01:34 AM

It just goes to show that since modern HDTVs only support progressive modes for SD, then its problem still lies in poor I-P conversion.

BemaniAK · 08-22-2008, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoglog

maybe it has something to do with 480i and being interlaced..

For the record: 480i *means* 640 x 480 interlaced, don't need to add "interlaced" at the end of your sentence

Zemata · 08-23-2008, 04:52 PM

I'm having the same problem with my new 40 samsung HDTV. I had to turn the timing all the way down to 5 on IIDX to make it playable, but it still stutters and doesn't feel right.

zoglog · 08-27-2008, 11:09 PM

looks like the game mode is the only possible way to play. sucks because things get oversaturated. I think they sony's don't have quite the same issue since they let you adjust settings in game. Something I hope samsung will fix

cupcake · 08-28-2008, 02:04 PM

Until your console outputs a 120Hz signal and your TV is compatible with that signal, it's pointless for games. It's great for PC monitors, and I absolutely miss playing FPS games at 90-100Hz on old CRTs.

The problem with the 120Hz mode and 60Hz signal for gaming is, in a typical implementation, it increases lag by at least one frame. The "120Hz" frame, (in-between frame) is interpolated from two (60Hz) frames. The display doesn't predict the future, therefore it buffers the data and ends up creating more lag.

zoglog · 08-29-2008, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cupcake

Until your console outputs a 120Hz signal and your TV is compatible with that signal, it's pointless for games. It's great for PC monitors, and I absolutely miss playing FPS games at 90-100Hz on old CRTs.

The problem with the 120Hz mode and 60Hz signal for gaming is, in a typical implementation, it increases lag by at least one frame. The "120Hz" frame, (in-between frame) is interpolated from two (60Hz) frames. The display doesn't predict the future, therefore it buffers the data and ends up creating more lag.

naw that's a common misconception. the 120hz is not for computers at all. It's so that 24p blu-ray movies can render at an even rate for 3:2 pulldown.

also with 120hz combined with Motion dejudder technology provides a smoothing effect which works well with some things and some things it changes the movie atmosphere into a soap opera.

Anyway the reason why it's affecting the IIDX is not all known to me, but it has to do with more of the processing power the TV is sucking up doing all it's advanced features. Hence gaming mode. However the gaming mode on the samsungs is stripped down way too far and the sharpness especially is set too high and non-adjustable. Hopefully samsung can fix this, but the gaming mode removed a large amount of lag.

As for computer use, sadly there is no connector that can support even 120hz at 1920x1080 resolutions so that's a no go.

Blackraven · 08-29-2008, 12:37 AM

That's indeed a very strong set of points.

Though personally, I still believe that the I-P conversion of the HDTV is still to blame here.

Granted, this didn't happen with games such Gran Turismo 4........or even Guitar Hero games for the PS2 (as these were already in progressive format/resolution.)