Beatmania IIDX 16 Empress CS discussion

[Exagon]

Originally Posted by Xythar

Do you think more people have Troopers or 4th style?

Do you think people who got into the game recently are more likely to own several recent styles than they are to own a bunch of older styles, and Empress?

Do you think people who have been playing the game for a long time are likely to not just own every style anyway?

Even for people who do not own every style, including more revivals from older games would actually have a greater chance of giving them songs that they did not have access to already.

I'm also not quite sure why you think Konami would be actively trying to benefit people who own less of their games.

Uh, ever thought of the fact that they included more TROOPERS songs because they actually have black anothers associated with them already? Along with other evidence (lacking CS original videos comes to mind) it makes sense that they would want Premium Best to have hard songs but not exactly want to have to churn out that many more. It makes perfect sense to me that they'd end up having more TROOPERS songs.

While it'd make sense to me that someone who truly enjoys IIDX would have access to every style, I don't believe this is necessarily true. For instance, I have access to Happy Sky but never fucking play it because its timing is fucking awful. It's really a huge shame because HS has one of the best tracklists on IIDX to date, in the opinion of many people, I believe. So, it's very nice that they're reviving some stuff from HS in particular. And yes, someone else brought up the fact about any songs pre-RED. That's huge for someone like me who likes having a consistent GRN.

While I understand nostalgia and the great respect that people have for early versions of IIDX, I personally don't think that charts (and to a lesser extent songs) were as good as they are now. That's probably a very unpopular statement on this forum in particular, but as someone who is new to IIDX and only got shortly before DJT's release, I don't find songs and charts from old styles to be as appealing as songs and charts from new styles. So if Konami, as a business, wants to cater to the general public, while I admit that I may be entirely wrong, I think that reviving more recent songs has a higher chance of overall better quality in the game, because IIDX has progressed a long way from the days of 3rd style, when charts weren't very hard and at least to me, not very interesting in comparison to today.

As for why Konami would want to benefit people who own fewer games... imagine a person starting IIDX now, and they've just bought EMPRESS CS which has PREMIUM BEST attached. This is the perfect way for them to get a taste of good songs from previous styles and realize that indeed there is a lot that they are missing out on and that they should actively try and get a hold of earlier versions of IIDX. While I'm sure Konami would be delighted if every avid IIDX player were to buy every single style created, I don't think they expect that to happen at all. The games aren't cheap at all, so it's unlikely that legit copies are the way people are going to go to fill out their library of IIDX titles. So really, I don't see them losing anything from including additional content. In addition, if someone gets 2 discs for the price of 1 they are going to feel a fuckton better about it than if they get one measly disc with fewer than 100 songs on it. I say measly because IIDX doesn't have features such as DLC, and for a truly avid player 100 songs is paltry even if every song is well-liked.

[Dara-G.]

Wasn't Empress supposed to target girls that never played the game to try to get them into it? If that was there aim with Empress altogether, wouldn't it be better to show off their newest work in hopes that the people who started to gain interest in the series would buy DistorteD or Gold because they liked alot of the songs?

[TOFU!!]

@ Xythar - Lol, I don't feel like trying to argue with you anymore. Whatever you say is correct, and how dare I question it.

In other news, I was wondering if the normal/hyper of jelly kiss are the same as before, because purotora mentions something about it but I don't know what it says:

※「jelly kiss」はNORMAL新譜面、LIGHT譜面はHYPERに、7KEY譜面はANOTHERに昇格

[Xythar]

Originally Posted by Exagon

Uh, ever thought of the fact that they included more TROOPERS songs because they actually have black anothers associated with them already?

I don't get it. You can play those black anothers literally one style ago, on the only other style that has black anothers. Why does it make more sense to repeat the songs that already have black anothers over the songs that could stand to gain black anothers by being on PB? Having a new black another is pretty much the only worthwhile reason I can see for repeating songs that were already on RED or newer.

Originally Posted by Exagon

While it'd make sense to me that someone who truly enjoys IIDX would have access to every style, I don't believe this is necessarily true. For instance, I have access to Happy Sky but never fucking play it because its timing is fucking awful.

Happy Sky's timing is a little off, but would you really rather have songs revived from it than pre-9th styles? As it is at the moment, if I want to play something like DANCER or bit mania I have to put in 8th style to do so. That to me seems a lot more inconvenient.

Originally Posted by Exagon

While I understand nostalgia and the great respect that people have for early versions of IIDX, I personally don't think that charts (and to a lesser extent songs) were as good as they are now.

Matter of opinion, really.

Originally Posted by Exagon

In addition, if someone gets 2 discs for the price of 1 they are going to feel a fuckton better about it than if they get one measly disc with fewer than 100 songs on it. I say measly because IIDX doesn't have features such as DLC, and for a truly avid player 100 songs is paltry even if every song is well-liked.

Again, quality over quantity.

[Malev]

Bad Maniacs�ニコニコ動画(ββ)

wut

[Exagon]

Originally Posted by Xythar

Happy Sky's timing is a little off, but would you really rather have songs revived from it than pre-9th styles? As it is at the moment, if I want to play something like DANCER or bit mania I have to put in 8th style to do so. That to me seems a lot more inconvenient.



Matter of opinion, really.



Again, quality over quantity.

I've said this before, but Happy Sky's timing is not a little off for someone like me. I find it to be literally horrible to the point that it's unplayable. If possible, I would do away with all the revivals from 1st through 8th style and replace those with songs of my choosing from Happy Sky, simply because I'd love to be able to play songs like Little Little Princess and Pollinosis without the fucking awful timing. But again, we're arguing matters of opinion which is frankly useless.

Yes, what I said was a matter of opinion I don't think there was much doubt about whether it was an opinion or a fact. There's really not much point in pointing it out I think, but to be clear everything we say on this board is our own personal opinions since our feelings are subjective and not based in facts.

Yes, to you quality is more important than quantity. My judgment of people in general (i.e. my opinion of what I think people would prefer), is quantity over quality. Especially in the case, which I mentioned, of a player getting into IIDX.

To summarize what is really quite pointless opining about this game, I think that everyone is 100% entitled to their own opinions, that goes without saying. So while we can all judge each other for differing opinions none of us can objectively say that another party is wrong for having their own opinion. I guess what I'm saying is pretty fucking obvious, but I thought it needed saying because of the way people are acting about this. Of course I think my opinion is more correct than other peoples', in fact I'd be willing to say that's the definition of an opinion. So to each their own. I think this game is awesome, some will agree some will (possibly vehemently) disagree, and that's fine; calling people faggots because they have a different opinion isn't.

[AceJay]

Originally Posted by Malev

Bad Maniacs�ニコニコ動画(ββ)

wut

Man that song rules but oh god that chart haha

Good to know it's actually on the disc.

[TOFU!!]

Originally Posted by Exagon

calling people faggots because they have a different opinion isn't.

Welcome to 2009. :[


Somebody mirror Bad Maniacs to youtuuuubeeee...

[DUBSTEPALLDAY]

Originally Posted by Xythar

I don't get it. You can play those black anothers literally one style ago, on the only other style that has black anothers. Why does it make more sense to repeat the songs that already have black anothers over the songs that could stand to gain black anothers by being on PB? Having a new black another is pretty much the only worthwhile reason I can see for repeating songs that were already on RED or newer.

Holy shit thank you. If anyone was starting the game with Empress and they liked it, they're gonna get other styles. Simple as that. How many people do you know that say that they liked a style but never get another one (not including people that cant burn other styles/afford them/import)?

DJT and Gold and DD and even HS and possibly Red are easy to obtain. Older styles are not. Older styles do not have the luxury of HS 0.5-5 or Sud+ or rival data or score graphs or any of that stuff. Older songs with pain in the ass gimmicks or charts that could have stood to see an [a] or even a [b] or songs that were on old interfaces will not see the light of day unless Sirius contains a ridiculous amount of revivals.

The "new will attract more" argument is flawed. There aren't all that many people getting into IIDX these days anyway and the people that do get into it are usually dedicated enough to pick up more than one style. Like I said, newer styles are easy to obtain, older ones are not.

[nostromer]

One thing that I think people are forgetting...

Is that empress is the exact same price as a regular style. I could imagine people would have much grounds to complain over the idea of "quantity over quality" - but its not like we are paying anything extra for the double disc.

all that is sacrificed is a little extra development and features on the main disc. But no matter how much the main game is lacking in surplus features (which it really isn't that much) -200 IIDX songs for 84 bucks is a bargain no matter how you look at it.

Not to mention... give bemani a break, its not like they have all the money in the world to dump into IIDX. beatmania is their baby and I'm sure if they had millions upon millions to dump into the game they would give everything the fans want.

Who knows they could be busy trying to figure out the future potential for a sirius release, which undoubtedly would require a much larger budget for next gen development.

[Xythar]

edit: this was posted in response to Exagon, there have been a few more posts in between

Um, okay? I thought that pretty much went without saying.

I think saying Happy Sky is unplayable is exaggerating a little. It takes some practice (and preferably alcohol) to get used to the timing, but you can adjust. It's mostly just annoying if you have to quickly switch between it and another style. The main thing to remember is that as far as Happy Sky is concerned, everyone is in the same boat - so in that respect, it's an even battleground.

[Xythar]

Originally Posted by nostromer

One thing that I think people are forgetting...

Is that empress is the exact same price as a regular style. I could imagine people would have much grounds to complain over the idea of "quantity of quality" - but its not like we are paying anything extra for the double disc.

all that is sacrificed is a little extra development and features on the main disc. But no matter how much the main game is lacking in surplus features (which it really isn't that much) -200 IIDX songs for 84 bucks is a bargain no matter how you look at it.

Not to mention... give bemani a break, its not like they have all the money in the world to dump into IIDX. beatmania is their baby and I'm sure if they had millions upon millions to dump into the game they would give everything the fans want.

Who knows they could be busy trying to figure out the future potential for a sirius release, which undoubtedly would require a much larger budget for next gen development.

No, because I think DJT is a better style than Empress despite having half the song count for the same price. That's the very definition of quality over quantity.

[Malev]

Originally Posted by AceJay

Man that song rules but oh god that chart haha

Good to know it's actually on the disc.

"That is not enough. We will be back to ****(Fuck?) again soon."

--1 final measure of BULLSHIT!--

[DUBSTEPALLDAY]

Originally Posted by Xythar

I think saying Happy Sky is unplayable is exaggerating a little. It takes some practice (and preferably alcohol) to get used to the timing, but you can adjust. It's mostly just annoying if you have to quickly switch between it and another style. The main thing to remember is that as far as Happy Sky is concerned, everyone is in the same boat - so in that respect, it's an even battleground.

I guess im one in a million that has no problems with Happy Sky timing but countless problems with Empress timing.

[TOFU!!]

Originally Posted by Milk Chan

The "new will attract more" argument is flawed. There aren't all that many people getting into IIDX these days anyway and the people that do get into it are usually dedicated enough to pick up more than one style. Like I said, newer styles are easy to obtain, older ones are not.

Not gonna lie, I have no idea how many people in Japan are getting into IIDX these days, since, like, that's where this game was made to be sold. :V