Doubles...doubles...O_o

usamablackbelt · 08-07-2006, 12:17 AM

I just started playing doubles after being stuck on the last few songs on 7K for a long time. Dude, has anyone else felt like it's a completely different game?

I can do all the 3s on Light14 so far after one night. Any tips on my not being able to pass ANY 4s, though? Double players, can you help? Maybe some videos to show different technique?

stoyq · 08-07-2006, 01:31 AM

(I recently passed AA 14k, Beyond The Earth 14k, and 水上の提督 14k. Just in case you're wondering about my skill level)

Double is an entirely different game requiring new techniques.

The biggest problem I had when I first started playing double was hitting the right keys. For example, sometimes when I see a key #4 coming down, I hit #2 or #6 instead.

Right now I sort of see each key's position relative to the previous key's position. It's kind of hard to explain. But for example, if key #3 is followed by a key #5, I see #5 as a note that is "the next white key" rather then "oh it's key #5 now, I gotta press #5." Then, when there are LOTS of notes coming down, I judge each successive key as "how far" it is from the previous key and move my fingers accordingly. I think this is something that you will do naturally once you get better, so you can't really train yourself to read notes like that. Then again, this might not be the best way to read patterns on double. (Perhaps other more experienced players have different reading techniques)

Also, as you play more and more double, you will notice that in many songs, there is a clear "bass beat" that one of your hands is playing. And this beat can alternate between 1P and 2P side. If you've played Drummania before it shouldn't be a big problem, because you will already have experience playing the main beat with different hands. The difficulty is getting your weak hand to play tough patterns (that your better hand can do easily).

Another question I asked myself before was which side to look at. When I first started, it seemed like I generally look at the side where my best hand is playing. This caused me to basically screw up the side where my weaker hand is playing. Right now I sort of look all over the place, but have a tendency to concentrate on the side that contains the oddest/craziest/most uncomfortable note patterns.

Finally it helps if you have several styles to play from. If you only have 1 or 2 styles, you're really gonna have a hard time improving because there aren't many songs to practice with. I have 7th~RED so that's already a lot of songs to practice with.

As of now, I need to learn how to do various types of scales with my left hand (my right hand can do most of the scales with no problem).

dog$ · 08-07-2006, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usamablackbelt

has anyone else felt like it's a completely different game?

Yep. Double is a partial reason as to why I rarely play 7key. A phrase I used to say was "Double gives new meaning to IIDX, and to life".

re: topic; same old advice, practice, etc. It will take a while to reorient yourself to 14 but you'll get there.

matduke · 08-07-2006, 08:54 AM

Like you, I could pass all 1s, 2s and 3s very quickly using my 7-keys skills.

4s are where 14-keys gets serious. Although, it's insanely fun, so it's worth practicing.

Arkaaito · 08-07-2006, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoyq

Double is an entirely different game requiring new techniques.

Okay, I wasn't going to say anything because I'm not that good at any of this stuff, in the grand scheme of things, but... WTF? 14-key is not "an entirely different game." It's not even like an entirely different game. 14-key and 7-key have many more similarities than they have differences. The only reason I can think of that you're saying this is turntable technique - or, I guess, if you're normally a 2-handed player on 7-key.

Blackbelt, my advice is: play some easy 7-key songs (3s, 4s, maybe 5s) completely one-handed. Completely one-handed - use your key hand for the turntable too, where possible. Do this a bit with both hands so that you get used to fingering, finding your place on the keys, and hitting the turntable while playing notes (with the same hand, obviously). (It also helps build hand strength for the kinds of maneuvers you need to do during 14-key play.)

Then go back and start full comboing some songs that you like from the easy difficulties on doubles (1-3*, in your case). Experiment with your speed mods - you may find that you need a different mod on 14-key than you typically use on 7-key. Make sure you have your controllers a reasonable spacing apart and that whatever you put them on is sturdy, with no wobbles. (I usually like them as close together as I can get them, but that's just me.)

Above all else, follow the golden rule of IIDX: practice, practice, practice!

Egads.

usamablackbelt · 08-07-2006, 10:35 AM

Arkaaito, the reason I said it's a completely different game is because of the sudden increase in complexity, the sudden demand for more dexterity, and that some normal techniques in 7Key cannot apply to 14Key.

Thanks for the help though, guys. I'm gonna get an oil change and come back to play more.

Opethian · 08-07-2006, 11:16 AM

im up to about most 6/7 star songs on 14Key and its was real tough at first but BMUS actually helped alot for the timing and easy grading scale, once i had the dexterity for my left hand i could pass most the 6/7 star songs in RED all except those damn TaQ songs they are all underrated!!!

gtsguedes · 08-07-2006, 11:19 AM

Helo peoples, I'm Gustavo
I too, begin double dance, after the crazy mode, and it's very hard!!
So, I dont speaky english, sorry for the words.
Bye

Audity · 08-07-2006, 05:18 PM

"sorry for the

"

If you play a song more than once, you'll generally get better and better at that song, as opposed to single (for me). So something to try is to max out your ability on each song by playing it at least twice, but it would get annoying more times than that, unless you're one who likes aiming for goals (AA on everything L14 or whatever).

Looking at individual sides is a nice convenient way to play, and you can learn to do some crazy stuff by memorizing easy-to-memorize sides like the hardest part of Colors A14 right hand, then just focusing on the left hand, with right hand on autopilot, to greatly improve how well you do. But then what about Random? You can't just memorize a pattern then. You have to look at all the columns all the time. This is why I think those crazy good Japanese players you see playing random all the time improve a lot faster. Going back to non-random would make non-random easier, too. That doesn't normally happen for awhile, though. I wonder who's done random on Double right off the bat.

Trex210 · 08-07-2006, 05:26 PM

when I get a job and get another controller Ill try playing doubles playing random. Ill start a topic about my progression

Arctures · 08-07-2006, 06:31 PM

How much is peripheral vision involved in game play? after seeing some doubles videos and charts I would find it difficult to concentrate on everything happening at once unless you had a high comprehension rate with your peripheral range.

matduke · 08-07-2006, 10:21 PM

It's an existant difficulty you encounter at some point when you get into 14-keys.

Aaand you get used to it. With practice!

Heh.

Arkaaito · 08-08-2006, 05:15 AM

This may be a factor... I know I have very good peripheral vision, since I require it for comfortably reading normal-sized books.

I don't play Beatmania the same way I read, though - I actually move my eyes somewhat during most pieces.

nytelyte · 08-08-2006, 11:54 AM

My sole advice for getting better at IIDX whether it's singles or doubles...

use your thumbs. A lot of players neglect using their thumbs.

Audity · 08-08-2006, 07:47 PM

Playing Random at the start will probably progress not much differently, since you'll still be looking back and forth between sides. I guess I should have said "You have to focus on all the columns all the time...when playing harder songs constantly."

You can stand farther back so you don't use as much peripheral, but then the notes get smaller. Having glasses/not-perfect-vision sucks somewhat. I also have astigmatism in both eyes. I don't have it too well-off. Just recently I was noticing playing 10th Style Traces A14, with the ending 16th notes that go from inward to outward, they get harder to read definitely. I put it on mirror, and as they went outward to inward, they got easier to read. I wasn't focusing that well that day or something. Maybe it will be like that forever from now on YAY