Timing Windows

Compass · 10-10-2007, 04:55 PM

This came up in the DD thread, but I wanted a broader discussion on the subject.

Can we agree certain styles have more lenient timing than others? Or perhaps more "accurate" timing? What are your personal observations?

Another thing I've been curious about is, has anyone actually attempted to measure the timing window in any style? Something like:

<-30ms.....<-20ms.....<-10ms...+10ms>....+20ms>....+30ms>
|---Good---|---Great---|---Just Great---|---Great---|---Good---|

That's just an example. Not sure how one would go about doing this...

At any rate, discuss.

[NesS] · 10-10-2007, 07:16 PM

they're all different to me. if i play distorted one day i have to play it the rest of the day or else my timing will be off by 100 ex on other styles (especially happy sky)

GA.Mole · 10-10-2007, 07:21 PM

Well, the way I always figured it worked was that it was defined chart for chart. We know they have the ability to specifiy the timing windows for a chart specifically (see: Gambol). Also, if you consider the 9th Style AC General Relativity glitch, it seems like there is no "global default" timing window set. So unless something changed, I think the timing differences are between charts, and not between styles necessarily. And if it is between styles it's probably because of a shift of the entire window, but no change to the window size.

Just my quick analysis. It's not really based on anything but said observations, so it's entirely possible I'm wrong.

ZapYourX · 10-10-2007, 07:32 PM

I thought it was a well-known fact that Happy sky CS timing windows are significantly tighter than IIDX RED and all of its predecessors.

If you consider CS 3rd style (overdose e-motion, etc.) I see where you could make the argument that timing is based on individual charts, but I think you're generalizing if you say that all styles are modified X way or Y times tighter.

And I don't trust any opinion on AC timings. Arcades are usually loud and busy, and who knows what the hell could distract you and make you blame the chart.

Aaaand....measuring the timing window to settle the debate is beyond what most of us are capable of doing so...not happening :|

GA.Mole · 10-10-2007, 07:52 PM

Pretty easy to see that there's a problem despite the noise in the arcade.

YouTube - beatmaniaIIDX 9th style - Bug of judge

EDIT:

And you can simulate a tighter timing window by just shifting the windows down or up. Think about. If in one style a song has the middle of it's Just Great window right where you believe the beat of the song is, you thrive on that version and do really well. Now in another version, the perceived beat is off center for that song. You don't do as well because you're riding closer to the edge of the window.

ZapYourX · 10-10-2007, 07:56 PM

I wasn't referring to the obvious...just the general "AC is tighter than CS cause it's tatsujin-land" opinion.

Of course I wouldn't disagree that G/R is 100% WTF.

EDIT: Yet I still don't believe that speculating purely hypothetical errata will get you anywhere without evidence. :\

GA.Mole · 10-10-2007, 08:11 PM

And that's why I said this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mogura

Just my quick analysis. It's not really based on anything but said observations, so it's entirely possible I'm wrong.

ZapYourX · 10-10-2007, 08:34 PM

Sorry if I've offended you! I hope it doesn't look like I'm attacking you or anything...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mogura

And you can simulate a tighter timing window by just shifting the windows down or up. Think about.

This was the pure speculation I was referring to. I guess when you said "Think about it." I doubted whether you were just throwing stuff out there...

ANYWAY yes we can agree stuff varies, no we can't measure for sure. My personal observation is that people can get used to anything, as long as its consistently one way or another. There's my two cents. :3

GA.Mole · 10-10-2007, 08:47 PM

No offense taken. I think we've just been arguing out of misunderstanding.

Solefald · 10-11-2007, 06:06 PM

1st-8th AC - standard
9th AC - fucked up
10th AC - tight
RED AC - tight
HS AC - tight
DD AC - tight
Gold AC - standard

everything CS - standard

Happy Sky CS does not have tight timing windows. I have never heard your "well-known fact" repeated by anyone else

ZapYourX · 10-12-2007, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solefald

1st-8th AC - standard
9th AC - fucked up
10th AC - tight
RED AC - tight
HS AC - tight
DD AC - tight
Gold AC - standard

everything CS - standard

Happy Sky CS does not have tight timing windows. I have never heard your "well-known fact" repeated by anyone else

Authoritative today, aren't we.
Remember this post?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solefald

9th Style and Happy Sky have a smaller delay between when you hit a key and the note plays. Basically every other style is early.

AC isn't timed differently, I think it's because most microswitched keys require more effort to press down, so there's another millisecond or two of a delay, making the timing seem earlier.

Way to contradict yourself there. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't be in such a hurry to trod on my opinions next time.

Season of Fireworks · 10-12-2007, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZapYourX

I thought it was a well-known fact that Happy sky CS timing windows are significantly tighter than IIDX RED and all of its predecessors.

Nope. It's different, but I can get 100% EX just as easily on HS.

ThatsGobbles · 10-12-2007, 05:36 PM

If anything, I think Happy Sky CS has easier windows than any other CS style (DD included).

rmz · 10-12-2007, 07:07 PM

Arcade styles between 9th and DistorteD have had different timing than their CS counterparts (9th was just all over the map, while 10th-DD were stricter, RED was also a bit early in unpatched versions, etc). Ryan2dx could tell you for sure, since he's a better authority than most of us and has played basically every arcade version since 4th (?)

Solefald · 10-16-2007, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZapYourX

Authoritative today, aren't we.
Remember this post?

Way to contradict yourself there. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't be in such a hurry to trod on my opinions next time.

The timing windows are the same size-wise, but 9th Style and Happy Sky CS are earlier than the other versions. I didn't contradict myself at all, Mr. Phoenix Wright.

I'm sorry if I seemed like I was being a dick, but I'm pretty sure you're wrong. I just don't know how to be nice about it. Sorry.