DDR SuperNOVA 2 AC Mk. II (US AC out now; e-Amuse!)

[Daggett]

Originally Posted by DarkTetsuya

Like they did for SN1? Actually that just fixed the sync issues, the boss songs remain locked to this day.

The boss songs were still locked in Japan at the time.

The update disc also synced our songlist with the JP SN's (FELM as a selectable extra stage, Flow True Style on the default list).

[Arctic Wolves]

Originally Posted by Daggett

The update disc also synced our songlist with the JP SN's (FELM as a selectable extra stage, Flow True Style on the default list).

However, Konami still patched the Japanese version beyond this update disc, and never bothered mailing an update disc to North American arcade owners. Who can blame them? What an irritating system. As such, Mind Parasite is forever a 6 on SuperNOVA (U/C), and cachaca is still a 5 on Basic.

The one time we've seen this update disc business in the past, it really didn't work out too well.

[DarkTetsuya]

Originally Posted by Arctic Wolves

However, Konami still patched the Japanese version beyond this update disc, and never bothered mailing an update disc to North American arcade owners. Who can blame them? What an irritating system. As such, Mind Parasite is forever a 6 on SuperNOVA (U/C), and cachaca is still a 5 on Basic.

The one time we've seen this update disc business in the past, it really didn't work out too well.

Which is unfortunate, because it seems at this rate that's the only way we'll see the unlocks, barring that the machine's aren't at least caught up to where Japan is (IIRC, everything but a couple songs and a handful of courses.)

[ctc43f]

1. There is a chance the kits could be shipped completely unlocked. Whatever was done to the test location with the planets course, etc. could in theory be done to the US kits.

2. Konami should really go back to the Max2 unlock system that allowed players to unlock content over time but still required play time to provide new songs and oni courses.

3. If the songs are that big of a deal, import the PS2 version or take the simfiles to an R21 machine.

[bansatalus]

Originally Posted by ctc43f

1. There is a chance the kits could be shipped completely unlocked. Whatever was done to the test location with the planets course, etc. could in theory be done to the US kits.

2. Konami should really go back to the Max2 unlock system that allowed players to unlock content over time but still required play time to provide new songs and oni courses.

3. If the songs are that big of a deal, import the PS2 version or take the simfiles to an R21 machine.

you are completely missing the point of everything we are discussing

[Månåtor v0.25]

I'm sorry, playing a shit R21 ITG cab is not the same as playing the songs on the original source. Don't suggest it again please. The thing is, we shouldn't have to resort to that. If Betson got their asses together, this wouldn't be such a problem.

[DarkTetsuya]

Originally Posted by TheManator

I'm sorry, playing a shit R21 ITG cab is not the same as playing the songs on the original source. Don't suggest it again please. The thing is, we shouldn't have to resort to that. If Betson got their asses together, this wouldn't be such a problem.

True, but if they don't I don't see any other option. But again, we don't even know what'll be in the game till it comes out, so who knows they could surprise us. (Unlikely as it may be, you never know.)

[Snapps]

Isn't their an email on Konami's website to tell them "How Do You Think of Their Products" or something along the line?

If so, many people can explain to them how poor Betson is with their products.

It's good to get the word out though, even if they don't take it seriously, because then if something every does arise between Betson and Konami that Konami notices, they might not brush it off and could possibly take action.

Though I doubt it'll happen, anything can work. This would only seem to work it's best after the release and not before though, so we don't seem like huge whinny assholes that just want their shit.

[Månåtor v0.25]

I sent several emails this week to different people, and hopefully the more people that complain the better. I mean, in this situation, isn't it fair to complain? And Snapps, trust me, I was very fair in my emails - expressing concerns with the potentiality of the product - I did express that if there is not some other option for unlocking the songs that the whole community would be disappointed.

[Sentou Ryoku]

Hopefully, Chicago will see a deluge of Supernova 2 machines as it did with Supernova ones. I'm finding it in the most craziest of places.

[ctc43f]

Originally Posted by ranatalus

you are completely missing the point of everything we are discussing

No I get what you are discussing. Most people want e-amuse support, which is probably not going to happen at this point. Even if Konami provides the hardware and allows non-Japanese locations to access the network, I still don't see a lot of arcades taking the time to hook up the machines to the internet, keep the card dispenser stocked, and take the time to provide what will ultimately be an underutilized feature. In the arcade I worked at, we didn't care if the DDR machine worked well or not. As long as it was pumping out loud music and showing something on the screen, we would get a lot of people playing it once or twice but not a lot of consistent business. And it was the #1 non-redemption game despite not relying on the regulars for business. Arcades do things that will make money, and the majority of arcade goers don't spend the extra money or time to "figure out" and use stuff like e-amuse on a regular basis.

Assuming e-amuse doesn't happen, we are then left with a few choices. First, Konami takes the time to fully unlock the upgrade kits and machines before shipping. It may happen, given the machine at the test location with the planet song onis available, but I doubt they release all of the unlocks before the Japanese market has received them. Furthermore, I see this one taking some time as they may have to network and unlock each kit before it goes out the door. Second, they could release some unlock disc in the future, which would require both coordination on Betson's part to track all customers, send a disc, and explain how and why they are doing so. It would also require the arcade owners to take the time to open up the machine and patch it. It doesn't seem like a lot of work, except look at how many Extreme machines still don't have the unlock codes put in because of arcade owner laziness. Furthermore, if Betson charges the arcade owners for the disc, you can bet most won't care. Again, they know the machine will make money even if there are a few songs missing for normal play. The last option would be to somehow code in unlock codes entered like in Extreme, which would require work on Konami's part and probably won't happen.

And so what are you left with if the e-amuse thing or patch disc happens? Just like Supernova, I bet that there won't be a ton of SN2's around anyway because of the high costs for the upgrade kits or new machines (unlike Extreme, which was easy to obtain because of all the cheap bootlegs). Those that do exist are going to be segmented into unlocked or locked versions. If there is a single machine in an area, it will most likely draw business regardless of whether or not it gets unlocked because it is the only SN2. If there are multiple machines and one gets the unlock treatment, it will get the majority of the playtime and the owner of the locked machine will be even less likely to get Sn3, should it happen. But really, the hardcore players will download the simfiles from somewhere and play them on an R21 or R23 machine because it is easier than having to deal with the crap above and wait a few months for some arcade owner to do any of this. The other best option, if you want to play the songs and in the SN2 interface, is to import it as you have a better chance of seeing ANY of the unlocked content there than in your local arcade.

Lots of I know, but trying to talk to Betson here and planning boycotts probably won't accomplish much.

[TimeSpaceMage]

Out of curiosity, what would be the alternatives to having Betson as a distributor? For instance, how feasible would it be for Konami to create a department for handling distribution themselves?

[Brazoliange]

Originally Posted by ctc43f

1. There is a chance the kits could be shipped completely unlocked. Whatever was done to the test location with the planets course, etc. could in theory be done to the US kits.

2. Konami should really go back to the Max2 unlock system that allowed players to unlock content over time but still required play time to provide new songs and oni courses.

3. If the songs are that big of a deal, import the PS2 version or take the simfiles to an R21 machine.

1. This is a possibility, and given that this time the game is being released 6 months after release when most unlocks have been shown it is possible, but given Betson's track record there is more reason to assume that nothing will be unlocked than to assume everything/anything will.

2. It's still a possibility, but that would require Konami reprogramming the game to include this instead of e-Amuse. Since Konami is pushing e-Amuse and Betson is only distributing (not programming) the game, it is extremely unlikely that Konami would spend time/money reprogramming their game for a non-primary region when they already have spent many years developing a reliable system to handle it. Especially when they are offering that means to Betson.

3. When your arcade is spending upwards of $3,000 then yeah, it is that big of a deal to not have 12+ songs, a number of courses, noteskins, etc. in the game when a different distributor's release does. You can say 'wah wah import it for PS2 or play it on ITG' but that has neither have anything to do with an arcade DDR release. Any arcade operator who purchases it 'legitimately' (through Betson, since importing Bemani is theoretically still illegal) gets a worse selection and any arcade in the area which then buys a Japanese kit will get an advantage in terms of songlist, sync, and extra features.

[bansatalus]

Originally Posted by ctc43f

No I get what you are discussing. Most people want e-amuse support, which is probably not going to happen at this point. Even if Konami provides the hardware and allows non-Japanese locations to access the network, I still don't see a lot of arcades taking the time to hook up the machines to the internet, keep the card dispenser stocked, and take the time to provide what will ultimately be an underutilized feature. In the arcade I worked at, we didn't care if the DDR machine worked well or not. As long as it was pumping out loud music and showing something on the screen, we would get a lot of people playing it once or twice but not a lot of consistent business. And it was the #1 non-redemption game despite not relying on the regulars for business. Arcades do things that will make money, and the majority of arcade goers don't spend the extra money or time to "figure out" and use stuff like e-amuse on a regular basis.

This is not the primary issue.

Assuming e-amuse doesn't happen, we are then left with a few choices. First, Konami takes the time to fully unlock the upgrade kits and machines before shipping. It may happen, given the machine at the test location with the planet song onis available, but I doubt they release all of the unlocks before the Japanese market has received them. Furthermore, I see this one taking some time as they may have to network and unlock each kit before it goes out the door. Second, they could release some unlock disc in the future, which would require both coordination on Betson's part to track all customers, send a disc, and explain how and why they are doing so. It would also require the arcade owners to take the time to open up the machine and patch it. It doesn't seem like a lot of work, except look at how many Extreme machines still don't have the unlock codes put in because of arcade owner laziness. Furthermore, if Betson charges the arcade owners for the disc, you can bet most won't care. Again, they know the machine will make money even if there are a few songs missing for normal play. The last option would be to somehow code in unlock codes entered like in Extreme, which would require work on Konami's part and probably won't happen.

With regards to SN2 in the US (and really, anything of Konami's in the US), once it is localized and sent over here, everything is on Betson. Konami wanted e-amuse to happen, they expected and planned for e-amuse to happen. Anything of this sort would require Betson's efforts to unlock it, which I really don't expect to happen given their track record.

[quote[And so what are you left with if the e-amuse thing or patch disc happens? Just like Supernova, I bet that there won't be a ton of SN2's around anyway because of the high costs for the upgrade kits or new machines (unlike Extreme, which was easy to obtain because of all the cheap bootlegs).[/quote]

There are 519 Supernova machines in the US (including Alaska/Hawaii/DC, not including PR). I don't think that is "not a ton"

Those that do exist are going to be segmented into unlocked or locked versions. If there is a single machine in an area, it will most likely draw business regardless of whether or not it gets unlocked because it is the only SN2. If there are multiple machines and one gets the unlock treatment, it will get the majority of the playtime and the owner of the locked machine will be even less likely to get Sn3, should it happen.

That's precisely why it's important from an overall perspective to encourage Betson to give the same treatment to each location (whether that's e-amuse or update discs). Any arcade that gets burned this way is not going to be happy and will may decide not do business with Betson (or possibly do anything with DDR) again.

But really, the hardcore players will download the simfiles from somewhere and play them on an R21 or R23 machine because it is easier than having to deal with the crap above and wait a few months for some arcade owner to do any of this.

I guess I am not a "hardcore player" then. I LOATHE playing on ITG. It looks like garbage. The only thing it's good for, to me, is playtesting files I've written.

The other best option, if you want to play the songs and in the SN2 interface, is to import it as you have a better chance of seeing ANY of the unlocked content there than in your local arcade.

Lots of I know, but trying to talk to Betson here and planning boycotts probably won't accomplish much.

Gretzky once said "You don't score on 100% of the shots you don't take." We know it might not accomplish anything, but it's worth trying.

[Darien Electrified]

Apparently, this is the reason why they had a delay. It turns out that they're shipping upgrade kits with dedicabs next week.

Edit: Is it just me, or do you guys also find it weird that he answered my e-mail at 3 am?