e-Amusement on CS Versions

[Reenee]

Another view: The Wii Classic Controller has Up, Down, Left, Right, A, B, X, Y, L, R, ZL, and ZR.

12 buttons. 14 if you add Plus and Minus.

[Morning Blue]

Originally Posted by eddie

Bemani has never been "Sony exclusive". It was available on the Dreamcast for quite some time before it was killed off.

The grand majority of Bemani outside of DDR is. "Bias" is probably a stronger word, though, what with every AC DDR game, the first 8 IIDX games, and every AC Guitar Freaks / drummania game running on PlayStation hardware. Not like the DC versions of DDR or pop'n sold even kind of as well as the PS1 counterparts, anyway.

You're retarded if you think that any 3rd party company in the video game industry has brand loyalty.

Which is why Konami made more games for PS1/PS2 during their popularity peaks than most of the other non-portable systems they also supported combined in the same year, right? Very few non-Sony games from the mid-90s to the early 2000's were original titles; many of Konami's X-BOX and Gamecube games were ports.

Having their games on sony systems for several years means absolutely NOTHING in regards to to their plans for future releases, and everyone who automatically thinks that they're going to go with the PS3 just because they had games on the PS2 and PSX obviously doesn't understand the video game industry AT ALL.

Maybe if the best selling system on the market didn't have enough gimmicky games as it is, I would take Konami's move to the Wii somewhat seriously! Because if the future of Bemani on Nintendo means more "party" games like Hottest Party, then forget it.

They were available on the dreamcast simultaneously for quote some time, with beatmania the only game NOT making the jump due to it having been out on the PSX with a controller for over a year before the Dreamcast launched.

2 DDR games and 4 pop'n games. That's it. No IIDX, Guitar Freaks, drummania, ParaParadise, or keyboardmania game has ever been released outside of a Sony system.

[eddie]

Originally Posted by Morning Blue

The grand majority of Bemani outside of DDR is. "Bias" is probably a stronger word, though, what with every AC DDR game, the first 8 IIDX games, and every AC Guitar Freaks / drummania game running on PlayStation hardware. Not like the DC versions of DDR or pop'n sold even kind of as well as the PS1 counterparts, anyway.

The pop'n games actually performed better because they played much better on the DC. DDR not so much, mostly due to edits. The lack of that functionality was why they stopped after CLUB. IIDX, GFdm, etc. all came out after the Dreamcast was on it's death bed. So that goes along with my arguement that they go with the console they stand to make money on. The DC was extremely popular in Japan until the PS2 came out.

Originally Posted by Morning Blue

Which is why Konami made more games for PS1/PS2 during their popularity peaks than most of the other non-portable systems they also supported combined in the same year, right? Very few non-Sony games from the mid-90s to the early 2000's were original titles; many of Konami's X-BOX and Gamecube games were ports.

Again, because the PS1 and PS2 had MUCH larger install bases than the X-BOX and Gamecube. The X-Box was practically a failure in Japan in the first place. A lot of the reason Gamecube ports never came also had to do with the series' already existing on the PS2 or PS1 with controllers. Having to manufacture and release a new controller for a game series on a brand new platform when it's already available and performing well on another is a costly risk to make. Now that all 3 of the systems on the market use USB for their wired controllers, Konami is going to be forced to make some sort of an adapter or new controllers whichever way they go.

Originally Posted by Morning Blue

Maybe if the best selling system on the market didn't have enough gimmicky games as it is, I would take Konami's move to the Wii somewhat seriously! Because if the future of Bemani on Nintendo means more "party" games like Hottest Party, then forget it.

Spoken like a true fanboy. I would say the Wii is no more gimmicky than the PS3 is with the Sixaxis or the 360 is with jumping on every hot selling "fad" in the marketplace. The install and software sales base of the Wii in all territories trumps the PS3 by millions and millions of units. It doesn't matter if other software is gimmicky, Bemani games are extremely well known, and sell well in Japan so no one that is going to buy them is going to look at them as a gimmick. You're quite obviously forgetting that aside from DDR, Bemani doesn't exist in the US in any form really, meaning that I'm talking about Japan exclusively right now. If we're talking bemani in the US, Konami would more than likely go with the 360, which has low production costs, an incredibly solid attach rate for games as well as a proven online service (both of which are big deals to American developers).

Originally Posted by Morning Blue

2 DDR games and 4 pop'n games. That's it. No IIDX, Guitar Freaks, drummania, ParaParadise, or keyboardmania game has ever been released outside of a Sony system.

Again, IIDX, PPP, KBM, DM all came out after the Dreamcast was on it's deathbed. I'm sure if the system would've survived longer there would have been far more released on it than what you mentioned. You're arguing in circles.

[recessionatalus]

he's also arguing with someone that kind of uh

knows what he's talking about

i love watching it though, haha

[Morning Blue]

Originally Posted by eddie

The pop'n games actually performed better because they played much better on the DC.

What does playing better have to do with sales (unless, of course, you actually have sales information on the DC pop'n games, and if so I'd like to see it)? X-BOX and even Gamecube versions of video games often play better than their PS2 counterparts, but they rarely sell better than them. And Guitar Freaks was around before the Dreamcast started failing (despite the fact that games were made for that system up until 2007, and supported by some third-party companies all the way up until 2002). Both PS1 GF games came out before the pop'n series ended on the Dreamcast.

I would say the Wii is no more gimmicky than the PS3 is with the Sixaxis or the 360 is with jumping on every hot selling "fad" in the marketplace.

Except neither the PS3 or 360 require you to point at the screen with their controllers to load up, start, and play most of the games on their systems. And I don't see 30+ party games on the PS2 or 360, nor have I seen a PS3 game where you have to use the Sixaxis to play every single aspect of the game with.

And 25,000-40,000 copies is not what I'd call "selling well", when years ago Konami used to sell hundreds of thousands of copies of DDR and beatmania.

[BemaniAK]

In this thread:


An argument based on speculation, TOTALLY VALID.

[eddie]

Originally Posted by Morning Blue

What does playing better have to do with sales (unless, of course, you actually have sales information on the DC pop'n games, and if so I'd like to see it)? X-BOX and even Gamecube versions of video games often play better than their PS2 counterparts, but they rarely sell better than them. And Guitar Freaks was around before the Dreamcast started failing (despite the fact that games were made for that system up until 2007, and supported by some third-party companies all the way up until 2002). Both PS1 GF games came out before the pop'n series ended on the Dreamcast.

Guitar Freaks came out before the Dreamcast as well, and note that I said "Drummania" and not Guitar Freaks in regards to batch of PS2 new releases that you decided to throw out as not released, despite the system being entirely irrelevant by the end of 2001. As far as XBox and Gamecube "counterparts" go, you also have to factor in that the PS2 was the number one selling system of all time by the end of it's generation. It was bound to sell more copies because more people had it. We're also talking ONLY ABOUT JAPAN HERE. The Xbox doesn't count when it comes to japan because it sold extremely poorly, and probably didn't get very many cross platform releases over there. And as far as the gamecube goes, there really weren't than many cross-platform releases made for it in the first place.

As for games being developed for the DC until the end of 2007, I hope you realize than 10-15 games over the course of 5/6 years doesn't constitute as active development. The majority of those releases might as well be considered homebrew or doujin-soft.

Originally Posted by Morning Blue

Except neither the PS3 or 360 require you to point at the screen with their controllers to load up, start, and play most of the games on their systems. And I don't see 30+ party games on the PS2 or 360, nor have I seen a PS3 game where you have to use the Sixaxis to play every single aspect of the game with.

Again, spoken like a true fanboy. The Wii has a plethora of control schemes for it's games. It also has a D-Pad and start/select buttons which can used to select your options and start you game in basically everything for the system. Everything you've said about it so far as proven to me that you've spent maybe 10 minutes with the system, because you apparently don't know shit about it. As for the whole "gimmick" thing, I was merely comparing that the PS3 and 360 have gimmicks as well. The Wii as a console is long past "gimmick" phase, people who still call it a gimmick are just bitter that it's utterly destroying everything else in the marketplace right now despite not being high-def, etc.

The bottom line of my point is that you're seriously a moron if you think Konami wouldn't consider bringing a series over to a console that's mopping the floor with it's competition JUST because it was on another company's consoles for the past 10 years. Now that controller compatability is going to be an issue no matter where they go when they make the jump, they're more likely to consider releasing on a system that's still impossible to find at retail (2 years after release no less) than they are a system that can't even make a significant jump in sales when a game like MGS4 is released. I'm sure Konami is really happy about that particular title showing up in bargin bins in Japan lately. It's been out for well over a month now and hasn't even sold 3 million units worldwide yet despite being extremely well reviewed/rated, how's that for a sales performance.

Originally Posted by Morning Blue

And 25,000-40,000 copies is not what I'd call "selling well", when years ago Konami used to sell hundreds of thousands of copies of DDR and beatmania.

I hope you're not getting your numbers from VGChartz.com, because they're way off on them. I'm pretty sure they only track stuff that's been in the top 10 at any given time in Japan, because the figures can be hard to track down otherwise. Every PS2 bemani release is in the top 10 it's first week out the door, and usually stays in the top 20 for a few weeks afterwards. It may not be performing as well as in the past, but their idea of "performing well" in general probably fluctuates as much as market interest does.

I honestly don't care which system the franchise ends up on, I'm set no matter which route they choose. I'm merely arguing that the Wii is extremely likely due to it's sales performance and ability to play the games themselves. Sony shot themselves in the foot with the backwards compatability deal, especially with not allowing peripheral compatibility, and as a result made the jump far less of a no-brainer.