Release DDR every two years instead of one

[limewirelord]

Like what? Shock arrows? Those sure are an improvement and everyone seems to love them

Oh wait, practically no one (ITG players included) seems to like shock arrows in DDR

That's because shock arrows were badly implemented and basically all of the charts with shock arrows, save a few, are just light charts with shock arrows in them. Who wants to play a copy of another chart, except with annoying lightning flashes?

[ranatalus]

Originally Posted by limewirelord

That's because shock arrows were badly implemented and basically all of the charts with shock arrows, save a few, are just light charts with shock arrows in them. Who wants to play a copy of another chart, except with annoying lightning flashes?

While I do agree, I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that they are experimenting with shock arrows before widely implementing them or trying to do anything particularly difficult with them

[ranatalus]

Originally Posted by LilRabbitToy

It's just dead, Konami will dish out more DDR games obviously for profit because it sells. Look at Hottest Party...if I am not mistaken people say the song list is good?

The songlist for the HP games are way better than the PS2 versions released around the same time (SN2 US/X US). I don't know about Universe because I don't own a 360.

[Ashura96]

Originally Posted by LilRabbitToy

DDR's formula for music is dead...it's all about IIDX now. Make the switch and don't even feel sorry for Dance Pad Revolution! The revolution is now over, time to move on.

Oh yeah, because DDR is completely dead, they're gonna have to go bury all those unsold copies in New Mexico, and now these DDR players should switch to IIDX AND stop playing DDR? Obviously the IIDX fanbase will always be sturdy in Japan, but here there are even fewer IIDX players, and you won't find the majority of them anywhere but here. And we already know that Konami did poorly trying to put IIDX in US market...

In other words, your conclusion there is dumb.

(Perhaps when you say "It's all about IIDX now..." you are just referring to yourself.)

[Kiri_No_Haku]

Originally Posted by Ashura96

Oh yeah, because DDR is completely dead, they're gonna have to go bury all those unsold copies in New Mexico, and now these DDR players should switch to IIDX AND stop playing DDR? Obviously the IIDX fanbase will always be sturdy in Japan, but here there are even fewer IIDX players, and you won't find the majority of them anywhere but here. And we already know that Konami did poorly trying to put IIDX in US market...

In other words, your conclusion there is dumb.

(Perhaps when you say "It's all about IIDX now..." you are just referring to yourself.)

Basically, that wraps up as "This is a DDR topic, not an IIDX one. GTFO!" ?

Honestly, I don't care if they make new games once a year or two. It is fun to get new licenses for JP versions (I don't usually like the US licenses) and a few crossovers every now and then.

But one question, WHY THE HELL DOES EVERY SINGLE PERSON, THAT I KNOW THAT OWNS A DDR GAME, ALWAYS HAS SN US???

I never got what was the deal with that.

[hello271]

Just to address a few points:

1. MAX2 has been out longer than Extreme 2, which has been out longer than SuperNOVA, which has been out longer than SuperNOVA2, which has been out longer than X. It should not be a surprise that games that have been out longer have sold more copies, especially when they go on to $19.99 BEST HITS.

DDR X has been out what, 2 or 3 months? SN2 has been out over a year? Of course it's going to be outselling it by a ton.

Sadly, this argument does not hold water. Video game sales are pretty front-loaded such that the gap between SuperNova and SuperNova 2 is very significant. Just look at the sales for the first 20 weeks of SuperNova and first 20 weeks of X. DDR X is very behind.

Compare Games | VG Chartz.com - Video Game Sales Charts - Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Wii, PS3, Xbox360, DS, PSP, PC

You are absolutely right, any random person you find that has more than say, 3 home versions is probably a more hardcore player. How many "hardcore" players are there out there that will actually buy every version in the US? Maybe 1000? Maybe 10,000 at the absolute highest?

So you agree that this supports my argument. The vast majority of consumers will not purchase every version of DDR, not even close. So why bother rushing out so many half-baked versions?

Didn't you say that they should simply be combining all the content from the two releases into that one, larger, "higher quality" release? What about keeping true to the AC versions? I think it would look rather lazy for Konami to have just pushed everything from SN onto DDR X and never release an SN2 home version.

I mean, do this for the AC releases as well as the CS releases. I'm just using CS numbers because they're easier.

An assumption you seem to be presenting here is that 1 game with more content is invariably going to be better than 2 games each with approximately 70% of the content of the larger game. Why? Is one 10-pound pile of shit better than two 7 pound piles? No. They're all piles of shit (not that I'm calling every DDR home version a pile of shit)

Here we come to the central point. I don't just mean, mush two half-baked versions into one, and call it a day. What I want to see is more effort on Konami's part, to license better songs, to have more quality crossovers, a more well-designed interface, more new quality KOs, and perhaps even new, but well thought-out and well-tested features in every version. That's what I want to see. Now, given financial limitations, and the fact that DDR is getting less popular and making less money, I can't reasonably expect Konami to just magically pour more resources and effort into every mix. Which is why I am proposing, as one way of achieving this goal, to have Konami take more time with each version and release them farther apart. But the main point isn't to release each version farther apart, but to have Konami put more effort and thought into every mix. Along this line of thought, you asked why Konami should slow down if Extreme came out in 9 months? Because I don't expect Konami to realistically come out with a mix as good as Extreme in 9 months anymore. So I'm proposing a more realistic solution.

As long as people continue to play on the machine, they don't HAVE to upgrade/fix/do anything.

Sure, I agree with this. And if DDR X were released in the states sometime within the next few months, few arcades would upgrade. Why? First, financially they cannot afford to upgrade every year because the DDR machines don't bring in enough money anymore. Second, SuperNova 2 is still relatively fresh, and few arcades have them. Players in the US are still perfectly happy playing SuperNova 2, so why upgrade to X? Now, if new DDR versions came out slower, like how SuperNova came out 3 years after Extreme, then the players would get sick of the old version (Extreme), and more arcades would want to upgrade (like they did with SuperNova).

Like what? Shock arrows? Those sure are an improvement and everyone seems to love them

Oh wait, practically no one (ITG players included) seems to like shock arrows in DDR

True, shock arrows suck. But I would again argue that it's because it's a rushed feature. Just look at Horatio in DDR X US. It's terrible. It was rushed. Konami then fixed it in the JP version and it's 100x better. Again, what I'm looking for is mostly better thought-out features. If Konami can do that and still pump out one mix every year, perfect. But clearly they can't. So maybe they should take more time with the new features a la Horatio.

Opinion. I have found that DDR X's songlist did not interest me much at first but now that I am giving it a second chance I am liking quite a few of the songs.

Whether the songs themselves are good or not is pretty subjective. What is much less subjective is the fact that we still have very few 13+ songs coming out each mix, as well as a lack of challenge charts (the shock arrow ones don't really count). So let's talk about this. Why doesn't Konami flesh out the rating system more? Maybe this has to do with the way Konami runs things and nothing to do with how much time Konami takes. But if you're Konami, of course you're going to appeal to the casuals by filling the game full of 7-9 (out of 20) footers first, and then trying to appeal to the hardcore. But maybe, if Konami took more time with their games, they can appeal to both.

This one is pretty simple--Konami's primary target for IIDX and Pop'n is (SURPRISE) Japan. Japan's arcade/console gaming scene is quite different from ours. Also, these games are much, much, MUCH more popular in Japan than DDR is which is why Extreme was supposed to be the last DDR--it ceased to be worth the effort. It's also why the newer games are much different because they are geared at the American audiences, not the Japanese.

Sure, Pop'n and IIDX are more popular in Japan than DDR in Japan. The better question is, are Pop'n and IIDX more popular in Japan than DDR in NA/Europe? Sure, Konami can sell maybe hundreds IIDX machines in Japan, which make much more money than CS versions. But more than MILLIONS of copies of DDR games in NA/Europe, across all versions? I doubt it. So if DDR is still making much more money overall, why doesn't Konami put a lot more effort into it?

[Pie-kun]

Sadly, this argument does not hold water. Video game sales are pretty front-loaded such that the gap between SuperNova and SuperNova 2 is very significant. Just look at the sales for the first 20 weeks of SuperNova and first 20 weeks of X. DDR X is very behind.

You can probably chock this up to the fact that the PS2 was a very different system when SN was released than when X was released. People aren't shopping around for PS2 games anymore.

Universe 3 is selling essentially the same as Universe 2 (It's gone above and below for some time, but right now it's right on the equal line).

Meanwhile, Hottest Party 2 seems to be selling well above Hottest Party 1, according to VG Chartz.

So the aging of the PS2 has had some effect on the "main series" games, yes. The next-gen games are going quite strong, and the series itself is going strong (combine the sales of all three games this year and it goes over one million units. That's really pretty good for only being out half a year and mimics past years despite the troubling economy).

[ranatalus]

touchin' on a few points

Originally Posted by hello271

Sadly, this argument does not hold water. Video game sales are pretty front-loaded such that the gap between SuperNova and SuperNova 2 is very significant. Just look at the sales for the first 20 weeks of SuperNova and first 20 weeks of X. DDR X is very behind.

see PiePie's response; also iirc they changed the way sales are tracked as well

So you agree that this supports my argument. The vast majority of consumers will not purchase every version of DDR, not even close. So why bother rushing out so many half-baked versions?

because people that have just recently bought ddr aren't going to go diving through the bargain bin, they're going to look for the newest versions, and store don't keep games on the shelf THAT long

I mean, do this for the AC releases as well as the CS releases. I'm just using CS numbers because they're easier.

in this regard, konami probably just doesn't "get" how american arcades work. japanese arcades work in the way that you are expected to keep up and always have the newest stuff. this is also just a matter of opinion, i guess. they are still releasing AC versions much less frequently than before--8 "main" versions (along with a ton of side stuff in just over 4 years versus about 1 a year which they are doing now is pretty different and indicative that they have slowed down

again though, this goes back to my point that they PROBABLY know what they are doing and have researched to determine the right gap between releases to allow them to make the most money

Here we come to the central point. I don't just mean, mush two half-baked versions into one, and call it a day. What I want to see is more effort on Konami's part, to license better songs, to have more quality crossovers, a more well-designed interface, more new quality KOs, and perhaps even new, but well thought-out and well-tested features in every version.

songs are opinion and we'll probably not see eye-to-eye on that so i'm going for the other part--what "features" could you add to DDR that would improve the game at this point? this is not a rhetorical question, i seriously want you to give some suggestions.

That's what I want to see. Now, given financial limitations, and the fact that DDR is getting less popular and making less money, I can't reasonably expect Konami to just magically pour more resources and effort into every mix. Which is why I am proposing, as one way of achieving this goal, to have Konami take more time with each version and release them farther apart. But the main point isn't to release each version farther apart, but to have Konami put more effort and thought into every mix. Along this line of thought, you asked why Konami should slow down if Extreme came out in 9 months? Because I don't expect Konami to realistically come out with a mix as good as Extreme in 9 months anymore. So I'm proposing a more realistic solution.

a more realistic solution is that we are not going to get a mix as good at extreme ever again and that expecting it is dumb

Sure, I agree with this. And if DDR X were released in the states sometime within the next few months, few arcades would upgrade. Why? First, financially they cannot afford to upgrade every year because the DDR machines don't bring in enough money anymore. Second, SuperNova 2 is still relatively fresh, and few arcades have them. Players in the US are still perfectly happy playing SuperNova 2, so why upgrade to X? Now, if new DDR versions came out slower, like how SuperNova came out 3 years after Extreme, then the players would get sick of the old version (Extreme), and more arcades would want to upgrade (like they did with SuperNova).

letting players "get sick of" mixes causes players to stop playing the game. that is not a good business plan, letting customers get tired of your product

True, shock arrows suck. But I would again argue that it's because it's a rushed feature. Just look at Horatio in DDR X US. It's terrible. It was rushed. Konami then fixed it in the JP version and it's 100x better. Again, what I'm looking for is mostly better thought-out features. If Konami can do that and still pump out one mix every year, perfect. But clearly they can't. So maybe they should take more time with the new features a la Horatio.

or they were experimenting and using the US market as a test, much like they used to do with the EU market

Whether the songs themselves are good or not is pretty subjective.

no shit

What is much less subjective is the fact that we still have very few 13+ songs coming out each mix

yes, but whether or not that is a good thing is ALSO subjective

as well as a lack of challenge charts (the shock arrow ones don't really count). So let's talk about this. Why doesn't Konami flesh out the rating system more?

they just DID, what do you want? 1-100? that's totally stupid and isn't needed for ddr

Maybe this has to do with the way Konami runs things and nothing to do with how much time Konami takes. But if you're Konami, of course you're going to appeal to the casuals by filling the game full of 7-9 (out of 20) footers first, and then trying to appeal to the hardcore.

and they've been successfully marketing the rhythm game genre for 10+ years now so don't you think they probably know better than you

But maybe, if Konami took more time with their games, they can appeal to both.

or maybe the hardcore crowd is mostly retarded and any assortment of 10 random players will disagree on WHAT they want more/less of in the game and as such will never be happy

Sure, Pop'n and IIDX are more popular in Japan than DDR in Japan. The better question is, are Pop'n and IIDX more popular in Japan than DDR in NA/Europe?

on a percentage basis probably; it wouldn't be fair to compare just numbers since there are about 3 times as many people in the US than in japan

Sure, Konami can sell maybe hundreds IIDX machines in Japan, which make much more money than CS versions. But more than MILLIONS of copies of DDR games in NA/Europe, across all versions? I doubt it. So if DDR is still making much more money overall, why doesn't Konami put a lot more effort into it?

SEE ABOVE COMMENT

REMOVE HEAD FROM ASS

[I LOVE MY DAUGHTERS]

There is way to much here for me to read, im just going to say that I think x was pretty good for the main stream ddr players since it was very close to arcade perfect, x ac imo is hardly any better (so far, and I doubt that the new challenges will change my oppinion) but its ok....I think it could have been better.

[_____Cait]

I don't know about you guys, but I would like to see another catch-up game like Extreme 2.

[Fred 00]

If you want a ddr game that has nothing but Kos and lots of crossovers, just get EXJP, sheesh

[I LOVE MY DAUGHTERS]

Originally Posted by Fred 00

If you want a ddr game that has nothing but Kos and lots of crossovers, just get EXJP, sheesh

Alot of people cant do that, or they just dont know how to go about it. Even I dont have Extreme JP, and I would have it if I could just go to the store and get it.
Also, I though Extreme JP was increadibly rare and expensive?

[Kiri_No_Haku]

I just got it for $60 from my58vw and all you need is swapmagic. Hell, these days most people just burn games.

[I Am Rey Pinyoko!!!]

The foot rating for X is enough for me so that's why I agree with ranatalus's point. And by the way, the sales for the X PS2 console software game is still low but it will gain somehow much profit in the future. It's better if we just stick to what KONAMI would decide what is better for DDR players...

[eddie]

Originally Posted by ranatalus

To be fair, EXTREME was supposed to be the equivalent of Beatmania THE FINAL. There weren't supposed to be arcade versions after it.

No, no no no no, no. NO.

Why the fuck does EVERYONE say this? They took a several year hiatus to not only try and figure out a way to reinvent the franchise, but to also figure out how to stop the rampant bootlegging that was going on from 5th-Extreme with the digital 573 boards. Note how the PS2 based hardware never suffered from that problem (also why there are less supernova/2 kits than extremes).

Konami clearly stated SEVERAL time when extreme was coming out that they were planning a reboot, hell it was basically Extreme's tagline. There were a few interviews AFTER Extreme AC came out where members of the bemani sound team had stated that the series was solely on hiatus.