Why does the timing option go negative?

[jstanley0]

I recently replaced my 20" CRT TV with a 37" LCD HDTV (Vizio VO37LF). I connected my PS2 to it via component cables. Sound is running to a stereo system. DDR plays okay, but I'm finding I have to "lead" the arrows a bit to compensate for the video lag caused by the TV deinterlacing and upscaling the 480i signal coming from the PS2.

And it doesn't look like the timing option will help - all it does is move the sound track earlier or later. Regardless of the timing setting, it still expects the video to be in sync with the judgment. I can set a negative timing option to play the sound late so it appears to be synchronized with the arrows -- but the game still expects you to step "on time" even when playing the sound late... why doesn't it delay the judgment to match the sound? Do people have problems with relativistic receivers that output audio before it comes in?

I should mention that I have DDR MAX2 and Supernova (also ITG).

[ranatalus]

i don't believe they added a separate option for changing the timing of the arrows independantly of the music until either SN1 or SN2

i would have to guess that they assume there aren't that many people playing DDR on large stereo systems that cause significants amount of lag

[jstanley0]

Aha. DDR X has a judgment timing option too. Nice. That means in DDR X, I'll be able to sync the arrows visually. But in MAX2, Supernova, and ITG, I'll just have to "lead" the arrows - which I can get used to on easier songs, but gets hard when the arrows get dense.

That doesn't answer my original question, though ... what good does it to do play the audio _late_? Why do they even have that option?

[ranatalus]

in case you have a projection screen maybe? i don't know, haha

[MdX MaxX]

I thought the timing option was supposed to line up the sound with the judgments, not the visuals. What does it matter if the arrows on-screen are off-sync if the music and judgments are right on? Unless you're a visual player, which I'm assuming you are.

I don't know, I may be interpreting it wrong. Basically you turn the timing one way to get rid of sound lag, and the other way to get rid of video lag. I forget which way is which though.

EDIT: Hold on, this might make more sense. The judgments are not supposed to move anywhere. Changing the timing of the sound should line it up with the judgments, since the video and judgments are synced with each other, right?

[jstanley0]

Originally Posted by MdX MaxX

I don't know, I may be interpreting it wrong. Basically you turn the timing one way to get rid of sound lag, and the other way to get rid of video lag. I forget which way is which though.

That's what would make sense. But that's not what it actually does.

If you put in a positive timing number, then it plays the sound "early". This can compensate for latency in the audio chain. So far so good.

But it you put in a negative timing number, then it plays the sound "late". If it also moved the judgment window forward by the same amount, then this could compensate for video latency. But the judgment window does not move.

In other words, negative numbers would make sense if the timing value was an A/V sync offset (audio latency minus video latency). But it's just audio latency. And no audio chain has a negative latency (the sound will not come out of the stereo before the signal goes in). So negative numbers just don't make sense.

Originally Posted by MdX MaxX

EDIT: Hold on, this might make more sense. The judgments are not supposed to move anywhere. Changing the timing of the sound should line it up with the judgments, since the video and judgments are synced with each other, right?

The video lags the judgments if you're using an HDTV, due to the time it takes to deinterlace and upconvert the 480i signal from the PS2.

And you should only have to move the sound one way in order to sync the music with the judgments, since the default setting of 0 means there is no audio latency in the system.

[Kσn]

I had the some problem at my friends house when we played Universe 3. There is no good way to fix this problem in those games.

[shadow0290]

I used to have my DDR setup the same way as you, with the audio going through a surround sound receiver and the video going directly to the LCD TV. The lag you are experiencing is because the audio literally has no lag, however the video does have lag caused by the TV.

What I recommend doing is making BOTH the audio and video go through the TV, then have the audio go from the TV to the receiver. The TVs are designed to artifically create lag for the audio to make it match up with the lagged video. This will eliminate most of the feeling of lag on your TV. Now depending on the response time of your TV, you may feel some lag, or a very small (almost undetectable) lag like mine does. The large timing window on the CS versions usually make up for the little bit of lag. On my TV, I actually play without changing the timing settings at all and I've gotten just as good scores, if not better.

Hope this helps.