drummania... DX? - Page 2

DeusExMachina · 07-12-2006, 02:57 PM

I think drummania is fine the way it is. Adding all the components of a drum into the arcade would be very complicated to play and probably more expensive to maintain. In addition adding the additional components would make the machine much larger.

I really don't think there is a significant link from drumming to drummania. I see them completely as two different things. I can pass every song with no auto... (except daydream and TL100s I require auto-cymbal to pass those) but I can't read drum score. Strangely enough I don't think i can play drums at ALL if the music wasn't in the format of rolling bars.

I don't think Konami made this game particularly to simulate real drumming 100%. I think its fine the way it is and its popular enough already. Likewise guitar freaks doesnt come anywhere close to playing the real guitar. Double frets are redundant when picking on one string.

About 50 people ask me this when i play drummania and that is do you play in a band? The answer is always no, and after hearing it that many times it gets annoying. I shud post a sign on my back whenever I play.

Well on the side point

DBV ur wish might of a DMDX with newly added pads might be granted if DM becomes popular enough. DDR was popular enough that people made cheap rip offs of it like ITG and Pump it up. Guitar freaks was popular enough that they made a cheap rip off of it called guitar hero. If DM becomes popular enough I am sure they will make a DM That incoorporates ur need of a drummania and real life drumming fusion.

deepbluevibes · 07-12-2006, 04:20 PM

I dunno. am i really the only person who plays DM like i'm playing real drums, and the only person who learned how to read drum tabs in like 2 days + play drums decently after playing drummania?

it can't be that rare of a thing where people get good on real drums after drummania... seriously now.

ΩOMEGAΩ · 07-12-2006, 04:22 PM

I really would not like that to tell you the truth.

DeusExMachina · 07-12-2006, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepbluevibes

it can't be that rare of a thing where people get good on real drums after drummania... seriously now.

Hate to disappoint you but, I've been playing DM and GF for 2.5 years now and based on my experiences and I know about 90 different DM players... I'd have to say that is not the case

deepbluevibes · 07-12-2006, 06:10 PM

guess i'm just the exception to the rule then lmao

Meow · 07-12-2006, 06:12 PM

I think most people who are good enough to handle the complexity of extra pads and double bass wouldn't mind spending money to buy a DTXPRESS and play on their computer at home. After all, DTXMania supports all the extra changes you mentioned.

EternalDivinus · 07-12-2006, 06:32 PM

Due to massive spamming of the song, I learned how to play Dragon Blade on real drums.

Does that count?

DeusExMachina · 07-12-2006, 06:35 PM

But the main problem is we know how to play DM based on our visual cues of drum strikes and really, just playing it over and over until it runs in our head so deep that the only you will get it out is if you blast it out with a bullet.

The reason you can play dragon blade is probably because you heard it so many times. (Although around noobs thats kind of out of your control)

But if you never ever heard dragon blade before, and you were given the drum score on paper, you might find it difficult to play. Or not if you are an actual drummer.

EternalDivinus · 07-12-2006, 07:12 PM

I was trying to point out that the only way Drummania can help on real drums is if you're playing a song from the game which you know how it's played out.

And that was a long sentence.

Chi · 07-12-2006, 07:14 PM

Quote:

+ play drums decently after playing drummania?

Define "decently", please. Hitting drums != playing decently (I wish it were the case!)

I took up learning drums after playing Drummania, but I see the two as being rather different skillsets (whacking single trigger pads to a timing generated by someone else != creating your own timing, groove, dynamic sounds, etc. - don't get me wrong, I love Drummania, but it isn't "real" drumming, really). I, for one, have zero inclination to see an *arcade* version with extra pedals and pads, for a number of reasons:

1) The machine would be more expensive => No upgrades from the old versions (which are widespread). This on its own isn't a big deal but when combined with...
2) The game would be too complex for most casual players (even if you could auto the parts, or have a basic mode which ignored them, it is still overwhelming to have so many controls). Therefore only us diehard players would want to play it => less revenue for the arcade.
3) Two extra pads and two extra pedals = yet more parts to break and need replacing => less revenue for arcades.

This sounds eerily like IIDX, except the thing you have to bear in mind was that Beatmania was exceptionally popular at the time IIDX was released, with a wide fan base, many of whom had "mastered" beatmania at the time (1999 = 3rd mix) and were ready for the extra challenge. Drummania does not *quite* have the same mix of fans, in terms of ability.

Now, I would be interested in a *home* version having an "another" mode (totally seperate from the "normal" play modes) which enabled all of the above for a selection of songs. I have a DTXtreme IIs, and double bass pedal (not that I like double bass playing, tbh). A home version which allowed switching display into music notation would be good, too.

I played the prototype of "Doogi Doogi" at ATEI back in January and enjoyed it very much (despite the actual game engine being rubbish). Now, Doogi Doogi had all of the above (except a double bass pedal - and the hi hat didn't affect the game, only the sound produced by thehi-hat), and my experience was that it was a real learning curve for most people playing it - including me. Real drummers were trying it, and having problems because... you have to learn to read the display, and 8 columns is a lot to get used to when each one is pretty distinct, spacially located. Fortunately, Doogi Doogi also had a music notation game mode.

Now, you'd probably have to have the hi-hat control as being an "extra" to gameplay, much as wailing is in GF (especially since DTX players have an analogue hi-hat pedal, with only full ressure on the pedal being "closed" and the others being various levels of "opened"). You might want to do the same with the cymbal/ride (this, in fact, is how DTXmania handles it), but with different keysounds on each pad, naturally. There could be a gameplay setting to make these "tight" (this could be added into the existing tight mode, of course).

deepbluevibes · 07-12-2006, 07:26 PM

Well, if you take for instance, listening to a song on the radio such as incubus's stuff, or hearing system of a down's earlier stuff, and then being able to play that *by ear* accurately on the drums, then yes.

and I know drummers who have been playing for a decade; they listened to me do it, we checked the drumtabs/charts and found it to be accurate, so yes, i wasn't just thinking it was accurate.

if you'd like, I can do a demo of me playing just random patterns, rolls, etc. and you can see if i know how to play drums decently or not.

Plus, i still don't get how it's so hard to realize that playing DM *teaches* you patterns which you can then break apart, combine, speed up, slow down, change the pace of, etc.

Take for instance Newspaper. You can get the basic pattern in that, add in drum hits (which i do on a lot of songs, actually to make it sound more interesting) or take out certain ones when you're playing on your own to make a different pattern.

Chi · 07-12-2006, 07:51 PM

And I maintain that drum playing is much much MUCH more than practicing "patterns" and having accuracy in terms of timing. And Drummania only helps with practicing a limited set of skills in that respect (don't get me wrong - I love the game and it has helped by e.g. getting me to practice bass drum independence and 16th note patterns, which I am weak at and generally avoid unless I foce myself to practice). Sure, it is yet another tool to help you practice with, and to experiment on, but it is limited, IMO.

Creating your own timings. Dynamics. Striking different areas on the drums and cymbals. Using different sticks and brushes. Improvisation. Groove. Effective use of the hi-hat control. All these areas cannot possibly be simulated in Drummania as it exists today.

Sorry, I'm not really that interested as to whether you are decent at drumming or not. Good on you if you are. Perhaps you are a natural. However, most people I know who just play DM (as opposed to also practising drumming for drumming's sake) can't drum in real life for crap (unless playing a DM song, or except for holding a standard rock beat or four on the floor, but then again practically anyone can be taught to do that in an hour! XD).

Quote:

add in drum hits (which i do on a lot of songs, actually to make it sound more interesting)

More interesting for you as a drummer, playing. Not always more interesting for a listener (especially if you are playing with a band) - sometimes less can be more.

deepbluevibes · 07-13-2006, 01:51 AM

creating my own timings, dynamis, striking different areas, using different sticks and brushes, improvisation (this is my best talent), i all do.

can't use the hi-hat pedal cuz it's a used drumset and it's broke and don't have the money to fix it.

and ok, i'll agree that drummania only teaches basics. I never said it teaches anything more than basics, but it still does create that foundation.

i mean before dm, even with four years of DDR experience, i couldn't play even the most basic beat on the drums, but i was able to do that after 3 months or so of DM.

so yes it does teach you the basics but things such as what you said, i had to learn on my own. but i never would have gotten even that far without DM.

Chi · 07-13-2006, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepbluevibes

creating my own timings, dynamis, striking different areas, using different sticks and brushes, improvisation (this is my best talent), i all do.

Not in Drummania, you don't. If you are doing those things (especially creating your own time), you are practicing outside of DM.

Also, I would assume that you have an analogue set if you are experimenting with different sticks and brushes...?

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepbluevibes

can't use the hi-hat pedal cuz it's a used drumset and it's broke and don't have the money to fix it.

Hi hat control is essential.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepbluevibes

and ok, i'll agree that drummania only teaches basics.

Basic Hi hat control is not taught in DM, though. And it is important.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepbluevibes

but i never would have gotten even that far without DM.

Yes, fair enough! Despite always wanting to, I wouldn't have taken the plunge (until much later in life) to start learning drums if it weren't for DM. My point is that DM still isn't real drumming, and it is important to be aware of this. It is good fun, it can help with various skills, but it still isn't the real deal.

_bloop · 07-13-2006, 09:26 AM

I've been playing DM for about 1/2 a year now and can do 55-60's, now I have a real drumset downstairs in my house, and I cannot play that for the life of me.