drummania... DX? - Page 3

deepbluevibes · 07-13-2006, 03:41 PM

Maybe it's because i've been playing DDR for so long.
See when I play DDR, I don't even "realize" the notes are there anymore.

I.e. i just move instinctively to them.

Same with DM. I'm following the notes, sure, but it's more like i'm playing the drums at the same time, i.e. it's almost an unconscious effort.

Alex · 07-13-2006, 04:17 PM

Hell, just make a double bass pedal and toss on some Dragonforce. :P

Apart from that, there's really no need for a "harder" GF or DM at this point. They're fine the way they are.

familyrestaurantbomber · 07-14-2006, 06:02 PM

Not only would few people welcome the complexity of more drum pads/pedals, it would also be frustrating to all as there are more parts that can break, and therefore would be much harder to keep the game in perfect condition. Stick with your own digital drum kit and DTXMania. It'll take much longer for that to die since presumably, you wouldn't let any random person abuse your drums.

*navfn2000* · 07-14-2006, 06:16 PM

I think this concept is similar to DDR solo. And we all know what happened with that.

deepbluevibes · 07-14-2006, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by familyrestaurantbomber

Not only would few people welcome the complexity of more drum pads/pedals, it would also be frustrating to all as there are more parts that can break, and therefore would be much harder to keep the game in perfect condition. Stick with your own digital drum kit and DTXMania. It'll take much longer for that to die since presumably, you wouldn't let any random person abuse your drums.

although that's why i said, it could be on auto. the only working 100% dm sets in california to my knowledge are;

RTA's
SVGL's
AI's

everywhere else is malfunctioning in some way or another, so i don't think extra things would make it break anymore.

familyrestaurantbomber · 07-15-2006, 01:16 AM

Unfortunately, arcade businesses have got to cater to the newbies, as that's where all the new revenue is. Have you seen a beginner try to pick up DrumMania? They keep hitting the hi-hat when they should be hitting the snare, or something silly like that. 5 drum pads plus bass is pretty challenging and borderline intimidating for a beginner.

Now imagine if you could take the MTV Drumscape cabinet, perhaps add a few more missing parts, and reprogram it to do DrumMania DX. I can't even begin to fathom how confusing and intimidating the interface will be. Sure, you could improve or simplify the interface, like make it 3-D and scroll like Guitar Hero, or remove or dim out all the "auto" drums, have a beginner mode that will let you practice and tell you which 3 of the 15 drums to play, and allow for a smooth learning curve that will take you to levels that add more drums in. All that is fine, except the concept is still very risky, the machine itself still doesn't look friendly to beginners, and it's difficult for a businessman to believe that there could be a good return on such a large investment. It just doesn't look like it would appeal to the masses. It would be a totally kickass game for many of the experts on this forum, but how do you convince an arcade to buy it and a game manufacturer to make one?

Melchior · 07-15-2006, 10:47 AM

One thing I'd like to point out is why Beatmania IIDX became successful, which was it's kickass music. Oh, and also because Beatmania was eventually discontinued. There might've been some people that moved simply because they needed the extra challenge or liked the fact that there were two more buttons (hey, I can't blame them, I like buttons too), but I assume that's not the majority.

Even if a Drummania DX was released, I actually believe most Japanese players would stick to the original. Unless all of the current DM songs were translated and available on DMDX and it was still able to session to GF, I would consider it a downgrade. Also, even if it were able to session with GF, arcade owners that already have a sessioning pair would have to choose whether to keep GF sessioned to DM or DMDX, so I would assume most DMDX machines would end up being unsessioned anyway.

So overall, would I play it? Yes.
Would most people? No.

And unfortunately, a successful video game (especially one with such a high investment as a Drum Simulation game) has to be designed to cater to "most people".

noisy doll☆ · 07-15-2006, 08:34 PM

I'm not sure if he even has a name on these forums, but someone I met at BemaniFest named Kevin was totally killing the V2 machine at TGA. I told him that I could tell he was a drummer, and after some conversation about marching band and drumline woes I asked if he could give me any advice for this game and drumming in general. His advice to me was "Practicing and getting better at drumming will make you better at this game, but playing this game isn't going to make you better at drumming."

This game isn't meant to make you a musician, and I think that no amount of extra pads to hit is going to really make anyone a musician if they aren't one already. When I first was getting into high school percussion and played a lot of DDR, I felt like my rhythm and reaction time improved a bit, but what made me better was that I realized how much I loved music and was motivated to practice harder and learn more things like scales and rudiments.

The gap in difficulty between this game and actually playing drumset well is great enough that making it more difficult will not bring people any closer to being drummers, so why bother? Just get out and join a band if you have that much time to get good at this game.

sanagi · 07-15-2006, 08:42 PM

maybe IIDX being succesful is due to 5keys and auto scratch. DM "IIDX" is a welcome change for me, but it better be damn playable for everyone else and not going to become some niche exclusively for tatsujins. Features like auto crash/ride/hi-hat pedal and sorts can help fix that

Chi · 07-16-2006, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noisy doll

The gap in difficulty between this game and actually playing drumset well is great enough that making it more difficult will not bring people any closer to being drummers, so why bother?

Because some people, um, view this as a game.

Playing a "DX" version of Drummania does appeal to me, I just don't think it is a viable arcade proposition.

Meow · 07-16-2006, 11:07 AM

DMDX would cater to drummers who want a bit more realism, and also experienced DM players who want to be a little closer to playing real drums.

But then again, you already have DTXMania, so I agree with familyrestaurantbomber that its better to play it at home. The DTXPRESS is a real electric set anyway so why not invite all your friends over to play all the Dragonforce you want for free.

*navfn2000* · 07-16-2006, 02:19 PM

wait, now that I think about it, wasn't a game like this already made called doogi doogi (with real drums as pads)? Anyone know what happened to it?

Chi · 07-16-2006, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by navfn2000

wait, now that I think about it, wasn't a game like this already made called doogi doogi (with real drums as pads)? Anyone know what happened to it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me, in this thread, one page back

I played the prototype of "Doogi Doogi" at ATEI back in January and enjoyed it very much (despite the actual game engine being rubbish). Now, Doogi Doogi had all of the above (except a double bass pedal - and the hi hat didn't affect the game, only the sound produced by the hi-hat), and my experience was that it was a real learning curve for most people playing it - including me. Real drummers were trying it, and having problems because... you have to learn to read the display, and 8 columns is a lot to get used to when each one is pretty distinct, spacially located. Fortunately, Doogi Doogi also had a music notation game mode.

The game engine sucks, btw, and I can't imagine (m)any arcades ever getting it, as it would be far too fragile.

DeusExMachina · 07-16-2006, 09:15 PM

Part of making a successful game that matches a real life situation is one that is not too general and not too specific. I've seen drumsets with 4 toms, 3 cymbals, cowbells and a dozens other things to whack. Sure you COULD make a drummania that included all that and have as many lanes as keyboard mania but that would inhibit a larger potential sales margin because playing it as it is just too damn complicated. (They make auto, light to allow more poeple to play the game without coping with the difficulty of such multitasking, hand eye timing coordination) On the other hand if you had just one pad, that would be playing a simple versio of that taiko drum game which is BORING and EASY AS HELL. Konami isnt in the business of training people to be drummers, just creating games that will earn them money. Apparently the current Drummania Set up appears to be most favored by arcade players but it just so happens the idealogy matches actual band playing.

Konami's passion has been, has always been and will always be (as long as they don't go bankrupt) making games. They wouldn't create a more realistic drummania game to train the real drummers out there. They'd rather make games and money off of that. The way they made drummania right now does give it a distinguishing signature of a drum simulation game that appeals well enough that morons like myself spend nearly 20 dollars a week to play it. Would I play a Drummania DX? Most likely as long as there are good songs on it like the one we have now but thats just me and Konami wouldn't make a "DMDX" just cause I wanted it. The only way they would make it is if everyone who played drummania wanted it but I am sure that is not the case.

deepbluevibes · 07-17-2006, 04:14 PM

Ok, all of those points are valid.

The only thing I have to say though is;

before DDR, if I told you about a game where you hit panels on the ground according to arrows going up a screen, just to see how accurate you could do it..

would you say "yes I think that would be a worldwide best seller"?

or would you say "what the fuck did you smoke?"

honestly. :P

the point of this is that you never really know how wildly something can take off. but yeah i agree with most of that.

However I just can't agree with DM not teaching you drums, at least the basics. I guess i'm like one of three people I know who got decent at drums from playing DM, and then learned past basics on a real drumset.

As a comparision, from 1-10, if 10 = you being a pro drummer, and 1 = totally n00b at drums...

Drummania brought me from a 1 to a 3 on drums. I brought myself from a 3 to a 5 or so through my own practice on real drums.