Exaggerated BPMs, what gives?

sanagi · 07-25-2006, 10:27 PM

I don't see why songs like across the nightmare, jet world, mangekyoku, and all its likes need to have their bpm doubled their actual bpm range i.e: Across the nightmare: 300 bpm instead of 150bpm. Are these just merely to intimidate players or is there a deeper understanding to it on song arrangement? Can anyone explain why their bpms are whacked out? Opinions/musical theories are more than welcome here, thanks

rmz · 07-26-2006, 02:15 AM

For songs with unnecessarily doubled BPMs, I always assumed that it was to give the notechart writers more precision when placing notes. A good example of this is Screen in Pop'n, which is like 379bpm but has all kinds of weird off-beat notes. Within a certain "resolution" that notecharts writers can assign notes at (like maybe at most 1/32nd note increments, who knows), if you double the scroll BPM of the song, you effectively can place notes at twice the precision.

As far as that in GFDM, I have no idea because songs like Jet World and Across The Nightmare have pretty straightforward rhythms and none of that weird shit.

Xythar · 07-26-2006, 02:47 AM

Funky Sonic World is a good example of this, haha. I nearly had a coronary the first time I picked it expecting it to be 200BPM and saw 400 on the splash screen before it was loaded (this was before I realised GF/DM had a constant scroll speed regardless of the BPM, although I found that out in short order)

Rynen10K · 07-26-2006, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanagi

I don't see why songs like across the nightmare, jet world, mangekyoku, and all its likes need to have their bpm doubled their actual bpm range i.e: Across the nightmare: 300 bpm instead of 150bpm. Are these just merely to intimidate players or is there a deeper understanding to it on song arrangement? Can anyone explain why their bpms are whacked out? Opinions/musical theories are more than welcome here, thanks

Mangekyou is only 138 BPM, from what I can remember...

Is it like 276 on DM? 'CAuse I'm always playing it on GF...

My guess - to make it look 'cooler'.

Across the Nightmare was the first kind of "Boss Stage" for Drum, right? Double the BPM, and it looks hard as crap.

Or it could be that it has more notes than a song at that speed would normally have.

IE: Mikeneko Rock & Jet World vs. any other 120~BPM song (okay, maybe not Jet World...).

I'm mostly leaning towards the "cool" part though.

I mean, no one wants to play a song called "MAX 150", now do they?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xythar

...I realised GF/DM had a constant scroll speed regardless of the BPM...

GF Didn't until recently... :O Not until like GF10th or GF11th

Opethian · 07-26-2006, 09:05 AM

i thought Waza was boss?

Xythar · 07-26-2006, 09:14 AM

Had to have been earlier than GF10th/11th, we have a spare Drummania 8th at the arcade and it's still constant scroll speed and I doubt they'd have done that for only DM and not GF.

Melchior · 07-26-2006, 09:35 AM

^ Actually, they did. No clue why, I know in DM8th/GF9th, DM has constant scroll speed but GF didn't.

And about the topic, I actually think Across the Nightmare makes more sense when counted as 4/4 at 300 BPM than anything else. I tried counting it as a 150 BPM song right now, and that just felt awkward. Same with Namida no Regret. Funky Sonic World, though, I totally count as a 200 BPM song. (And I didn't realize it until just now . . . but I know for a fact when I'm playing the main groove, I only count the basses and not the snares.)

deepbluevibes · 07-26-2006, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Opethian

i thought Waza was boss?

speaking of waza...

did anyone notice that there are like (counting the hi-hat hits) upwards of 300+ notes missing from that?

the part where you're doing the hi-hat in a straight rhythm, it should be double time there...

and there are multiple drum hits that are easily heard in the song but not represented on notes.

if they released DAY DREAM... why would they not give us all the notes for waza?

Kei.SG · 07-26-2006, 11:29 AM

DM had constant scroll speeds from the beginning, but GF only had constant scroll speeds from GF9th or 10th, can't remember.

Back to topic, they probably set it to 300bpm because they prefer counting in full notes, as mentioned by Melchoir, it "sounds" logical when you keep a metronome count in that BPM in full notes.

But either way, it really doesn't matter what BPM a song is stated as. I can interpret Funky as a song played mainly in full notes on 200bpm, half notes on 100bpm, and henceforth. The main idea of the BPM given would most probably be to give the player a rough gauge of how fast the song would actually be.

That's just my view though.

And for the question to why Konami would not release the "updated" Waza...erm...laziness?

Rynen10K · 07-26-2006, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Opethian

i thought Waza was boss?

Maybe - I don't really play DM that much...I just remember my friend getting all excited that he got to ATN as an extra stage when we were just starting out playing GFDM... maybe he was on Basic mode (or whatever DM1 called it)?

Is Waza the boss stage on Real in DM1?

DeusExMachina · 07-26-2006, 01:48 PM

Haha i studied music theory and I know the answer to this question.

Its more aimed towards the type of the song and its general flavor. If the whole song is upbeat with fast beats then it is easier for a conductor and the players to stay in that beat the whole time. You could very well make funky sonic world 100 bpm with its hi hats 16th notes or 50 bpm with 32th notes. Some songs composed by baroque and classical composers contain 32th notes and even 64th notes in some rare cases but all those songs are usually 60 to 80 bpm or even less. The bpm really pertains to the general mode of the song whether its a slow song or a rock song. It is also easier to dictate with a fast bpm for fast songs as it gives a higher refresh rate to stay in beat

sanagi · 07-26-2006, 10:33 PM

Hmm... makes sense to me. Across does feel like a "fast" song, but I'm not too sure with Jet world, to me its comparable to, lets say, Rolling1000toon which still remained at somewhere 140-ish bpm.

But how about Mangekyoku where it for no reason, just changes its bpm somewhere in the 22nd measure? The song generally feels laid back all the way. Herring roe stuffs you with 16th notes but it's constantly in 130ish bpm despite the non-tatsujin-drummer suffering from severe spasm on the arms, perhaps the amount of notes on this one should justify it's need for a double bpm? And best of all, we have day-dream, but never mind that, it's just izumi on weeds, dope, crack and all that other f'd up sh*t he just whiffed in.

***June.H*** · 07-27-2006, 01:29 AM

As said earlier, DM always had constant scroll speed, but GF only did that since 10th Mix (i'm pretty sure I had to keep adjusting for 9th).

Rynen: I always thought Konami considered Waza a boss song.

shungokusatsu · 07-27-2006, 05:08 PM

Same goes for bag in IIDX and DDR:
130 BPM in IIDX vs. 65 BPM in DDR

Eggman · 07-27-2006, 05:28 PM

It's called cut-time. It registers as double bpm but the measures are half as long (4/2 time if I remember right. Quarter note gets 1 beat and 2 beats per measure). It's completely correct do this if the song is written with that time signature so it isn't any sort of omg mixup. The songs still play just like what their non-cut-time bpm is.