GH controller - circuit mapping? Plus a few questions.

[DizzyBum]

(This was cross-posted to the Guitar Hero board. Mods can delete one or the other if this is inappropriate.)
(Also, I misspelled GH, how sad is that?)

I'm looking to tinker around with my wireless Guitar Hero controller. Basically, I'd like to know what wires map to what equivalent DualShock buttons. My ultimate aim is to make a wireless controller that can switch between Guitar Hero "mode" and Guitar Freaks "mode" at the flick of a toggle switch that I install. (The toggle switch would, not surprisingly, be mapped to the Left key. Anyone that's tried to play GF with a GH controller knows why.)

The Start and Select button contacts are clearly labeled on the board. The fret buttons, however, are not, and I seem to recall that the number of wires coming from the frets to the board don't quite match up with the five fret buttons.

Obviously, the power for the board comes from the battery pack's wires, although I have no idea what wire is equivalent to what part of the actual circuit.

I also want to try converting the pick from the clicky-button style to a more Guitar-Freaks-arcade-style pick. Ideally, I would use one of the analog stick elements from a PS1 DualShock series-A controller, and then use a little bit of mechanical tinkering to "hook it up" to the underside of the pick. However, given that the clicky-button elements seem to be hotglued into the board, that probably wouldn't work the way I want. And that still leaves the issue of the board itself that has "pressing left" hardcoded into it.

I'd like to keep it wireless if I can help it, but that might be asking too much. I've seen it done with other controller mods, but on the other hand they had started out with wired controllers and modded them using wireless Dualshock boards.

Anyway, to summarize, this is what I want to do:
- Install a toggle switch for the Left button.
- Sub a DualShock controller board in place of the original board, and rewire all the keys.
- Move the pick onto one of the analog stick elements.

At the very least, I'll lose the wireless and end up with a wired controller that can still play both games. Any constructive comments or suggestions or links to do-it-yourself instructions from people that have already done this sort of thing would be most appreciative.


I may also be checking with Gamestop today on their return policy. I already opened the free battery pack that came with the wireless guitar, but I only played with it for about five minutes just to test it out and I saved all the other packaging (minus the tight plastic that wrapped the batteries). I've been able to return a used PS2 to a Gamestop and get my money back (brought it back a week later when I realized I needed the money for more important things), so this shouldn't be a problem, right? If I can't, it's really not the end of the world.

[Zarcom]

Or, get a program called BandJam, try to find some guitar freaks simfiles, get a psx-to-usb controller and play guitar freaks on there, that might work.

You might want to use joy-2-key so you dont have the thing holding left constantly heh.

But yeah, good luck with that.

[Alex]

Contrary to popular belief, Left is NOT the directional you should be concerning yourself with. You need to worry about holding down right as well as left when you want to play Guitarfreaks. Otherwise you won't be able to play the older CS releases or Guitarfreaks V.

This is because Guitar Hero controllers identify themselves by holding down Left, while Guitarfreaks controllers identify themselves by holding down Left and Right. So, with how the Guitar Hero board is mapped out, here's what you need to do.

-Cut all of the wires in the Guitar Hero controller. There is no contact point for Right or Left on the Guitar Hero PCB, and in order to overcome that you would need to make a new brain chip for the device. Unless you know how to program in assembly and have access to a chip burner, this is pretty much impossible.
-Rewire all of the controls to a Dualshock PCB, including the connection points for the pick switches, the tilt switch, and the whammy bar (which is mapped to an analog stick, you can find a wireless guitar tutorial to find the specifics for this).
-Solder Left so that it's permanently held down.
-Install a switch to activate/deactivate the Right hold.
-Install a switch to alter the picking from bidirectional to unidirectional. (Guitarfreaks only recognizes an input of Up as picking, while Guitar Hero recognizes Up and Down. If you don't do this you can only scroll up in Guitar Hero's menus.)

The only easy part about all of this is that the first three buttons on the Guitar Hero controller map to the exact same buttons as Red, Green, and Blue on the Guitarfreaks controller, and the tilt switch does as well.

Oh and I almost forgot the final step:

-Weep openly because hyperpicking doesn't work well because of the mechanics involved in the Guitar Hero picking mechanism.

It's a fun project if you're into it, but the results from my own experience are far from perfect. I gave up on making it bimodal a few steps in, but I've heard of troubles with the whammy bar and its default analog input, which you'll have to look into on your own.

[Zarcom]

plain and simple, just buy an GF asc, I am VERY sure they will have some comingh up in october, considering that V3 CS is coming out in that time.

[aeriyu]

Originally Posted by Zarcom

plain and simple, just buy an GF asc, I am VERY sure they will have some comingh up in october, considering that V3 CS is coming out in that time.

Source pls.

While we're on the topic of custom controllers, just take a look at IIDX and Pop'n -- yes, the official controllers are indeed usable and quite good, but there are a few alternatives out there that provide a home experience more similar to that of the arcades. That being said, Konami ASCs, expensive as they may be, are typically Japanese-exclusive. I hope that Konami's expansion into USA prompts them to consider porting the ASC over, cos I'm sure that they can tell that they have lots of bemani fans in North America.

Not everybody is as lucky as checkrox (gj winning that auction )

[Alex]

The only problem with GF ASCs as compared to other ones is there's no way for home controller makers to get the proprietary picking mechanism from the arcade, which Konami can do pretty easily. Pop'n buttons are just standard 3.5" domes, and even IIDX turntables are easier to replicate than that crazy little bit of hardware they've got going for the pick mech. However if Dao ever makes a GF ASC I will definitely pick one up since I know he probably has the ability to do it pretty well. I could always use a second ASC, and that'd work even better if Konami doesn't make more. :3

[DizzyBum]

SLAKE, thanks for all the info.

If I ever get this project off the ground, I would most likely leave my wireless GH guitar intact and create a completely new controller. Gutting the wireless controller would just be a waste of a perfectly good controller, and I can always sell it or give it to a friend for their birthday if I actually finish the new controller and don't have a use for the old one anymore.

I just need to get the basic circuits mapped out on paper. I'm shaky on the actual button mappings for both controllers. If I had a diagram similar to the infamous Pop'n/Dualshock controller mapping picture, that'd be perfect. And I didn't have a clue about the permabuttons for the GF controller, so thanks for that.

The Dualshock I have is an A-series Sony Dualshock. I've found a no-solder wiring solution for this controller which I'd like to try since I'm not that great at soldering yet. I just need to figure out how to complete and test the connections.

The unimodal/bimodal nature of both games makes this a bit tricky. I'm sure GH can function as a unimodal game like GF without a problem, but navigating menus would be a little bit difficult if I couldn't go in a certain direction. I could just install a single Down button or something.

I think the toughest parts will be:

- Getting the circuits worked out, drawn on paper, and testing all the connections on the DualShock before actually assembling the controller.
- Building the body of the controller.
- Creating a pick mechanism with an authentic arcade feel.

I'm confident that this can be done, it'll just take a lot of work. The satisfaction would be well-worth it, however.

[Zarcom]

Originally Posted by DizzyBum

SLAKE, thanks for all the info.

If I ever get this project off the ground, I would most likely leave my wireless GH guitar intact and create a completely new controller. Gutting the wireless controller would just be a waste of a perfectly good controller, and I can always sell it or give it to a friend for their birthday if I actually finish the new controller and don't have a use for the old one anymore.

I just need to get the basic circuits mapped out on paper. I'm shaky on the actual button mappings for both controllers. If I had a diagram similar to the infamous Pop'n/Dualshock controller mapping picture, that'd be perfect. And I didn't have a clue about the permabuttons for the GF controller, so thanks for that.

The Dualshock I have is an A-series Sony Dualshock. I've found a no-solder wiring solution for this controller which I'd like to try since I'm not that great at soldering yet. I just need to figure out how to complete and test the connections.

The unimodal/bimodal nature of both games makes this a bit tricky. I'm sure GH can function as a unimodal game like GF without a problem, but navigating menus would be a little bit difficult if I couldn't go in a certain direction. I could just install a single Down button or something.

I think the toughest parts will be:

- Getting the circuits worked out, drawn on paper, and testing all the connections on the DualShock before actually assembling the controller.
- Building the body of the controller.
- Creating a pick mechanism with an authentic arcade feel.

I'm confident that this can be done, it'll just take a lot of work. The satisfaction would be well-worth it, however.

as an awesome friend once said to me, I will say the same to you

"Good luck getting it all together". If you pull this off, go for it .

[Zarcom]

Originally Posted by aeriyu

Source pls.

Sorry, I dont have a source on that one, but isnt it obvious, V3 CS is coming otu in october and since that will be released, why not the GF controller??

After all, those things ARE in high demand.

See yaz bye.

[DizzyBum]

Originally Posted by Zarcom

as an awesome friend once said to me, I will say the same to you

"Good luck getting it all together". If you pull this off, go for it .

I'll certainly try. I'm going to plan ahead as best I can and then only start once I'm sure I've got everything planned out. (I need to commit to SOME project this year, for once...)

I've been planning to buy a power drill set and this might be a good excuse. Heh heh.

[Zarcom]

but yeah, if you pull that off, do give us pics or a video tutorial .

[DizzyBum]

I was brainstorming some ideas for the pick circuit.

Originally I thought a reflective sensor would work, but I wanted to keep the sensor stationary if possible, and let the physical pick do all the work. Then I remembered Omron, searched their website, and found this:

http://www.components.omron.com/components/web/PDFLIB.nsf/0/5A987F5A211FE10B85257201007DD5FA/$file/85_sx398_498_0607.pdf

There's a lot of sensors like this, and this is exactly the sort of thing that could produce the necessary buttonless unimodal switch mechanism. They're cheap, they're small, I only need one, and I could use *anything* to make this work as long as it's connected to the picking mechanism. Hell, I could just glue some index cards together, cut a circle out of it, then cut a small even hole near the outside edge. Put it together with the pick mechanism, wire it to the Up button (or was it the down button?) and you have a no-click pick.

Then comes the subject of the tension in the pick. It obviously has to return back to the neutral position when you're not touching it. In the GH controller, that's done by the spring tension in the pick buttons. The plastic pick itself simply rests on top of the buttons in the neutral position. With the GF arcade controller, it can't wiggle out of place at all, but it still has a little bit of resistance when you push up or down. I'm sure springs are a fine solution, but springs wear out over time. Maybe a few properly-placed magnets would work? I dunno, but I'll fool around with some things to see what works.

And then there's the issue of what I can use to make the pick itself. I can't exactly go to Home Depot and buy a pack of Guitar Freaks arcade-style plastic pick molds. I could just go for a cheap cop-out, duct-tape a battery to the outside of a small plastic cylinder and there's my pick-shaped object. But there has to be a better way.

[Checky]

If I'm going to get a second ASC.. I'm gonna hold out and see what Dao comes up with. From some Emails that I sent back and forth with him it looks like the Guitar is going to be dual PCB, so theres going to be no problems with switching back and forth with GF/GH... As well, 5 sanwas seems to be the current button ideas. I personally think it would work quite well. The only forseen problem is getting the picks, but I think Dao can do it.

And thx Aeri, it's awesome.

[DizzyBum]

Originally Posted by Checky

If I'm going to get a second ASC.. I'm gonna hold out and see what Dao comes up with. From some Emails that I sent back and forth with him it looks like the Guitar is going to be dual PCB, so theres going to be no problems with switching back and forth with GF/GH... As well, 5 sanwas seems to be the current button ideas. I personally think it would work quite well. The only forseen problem is getting the picks, but I think Dao can do it.

I have no doubt in my mind that Dao will make a top-quality controller. I'm not making a production prototype if that's what you're thinking.