Guitar Freaks/Drummania V5 released!

[DaviDave]

aww.. that sucks... singapore hasnt yet? no wonder canadian/american people have it already so pity for us

anyway... im getting like Vanessa hahahah.. in.. V6.. i can play it. XD

[AdamW]

hanbin: wow, that's odd. I'm sure it'll be coming, though. Don't you guys know your arcade managers? Can't you just ask?

[tsugaru7reveng]

Originally Posted by DaviDave

aww.. that sucks... singapore hasnt yet? no wonder canadian/american people have it already so pity for us

anyway... im getting like Vanessa hahahah.. in.. V6.. i can play it. XD

Just one more year, then we'll be able to play it.

NOTE: A new GFDM releases every 10-11 months. In the Philippines, we get it around 2-3 months after its Japan release without the e-amuse-only songs of course. Also, we don't have e-amuse, and chances of us getting it are like 0.00000000000000000000006%.

I wanna spam ALMOST EASY, ATOMS, Mannequin and FUSHIGIDA NIPPON already.

Well, VANESSA has a GFDM version... I wonder if GOLD RUSH or V will be in it.

Meh, I can't wait for the next EXTRA RUSH song, although I'm pretty sure it's just going to be another Jin Senbonmatsu or a 96 song. MODEL FT3 won't definitely be the next, however, and Asaki still doesn't have a song under his name yet... V5 needs moar Zektbach

[ocyl]

So I played GF V5 for the first time yesterday afternoon. Presentation (e.g. audio, video, signs, etc.) is nicely done and well delivered, but something *is* seriously wrong with the difficulty rating system. Case in point:

絶望ビリー ADV (45, Long) -> A
CHIMERA ADV (41, Long) -> F

絶望ビリー ADV is a lot closer to 45 than CHIMERA ADV is to 41. I would have put CHIMERA ADV in the 60s+.

I also agree with what's been said in this thread before regarding the increased overall difficulty. I've noticed that note charts of new songs below or at 40 have become more complex, too. Combining this with the unfortunate exclusion of Light mode, one cannot help but to start worrying about the financial well-being of the series down the road. Zektbach = 舟木 智介 = TOMOSUKE. I hear that Beatmania and Pop'n Music crews are treating him quite well over there.

[Opethian]

I have never used light ever in GF
maybe thats why I cant pass anything higher than 65-68s

good thing I never got used to the mod

[AdamW]

ocyl: that happens sometimes and doesn't necessarily always mean the difficulty level is wrong. There are different techniques involved in playing GF/DM, so if your ability in different areas is different, you may well be able to score much higher on one song than on another with a similar rating. For a GF example, if you're great at staircases but terrible at hyperpicking, you might get an S on a staircase-based level 60 but fail a hyperpicking-based level 60; that doesn't mean the levels are wrong.

What I often find is that when you run into that situation, you think it's wrong, and then you come back to the same two songs a year later - when you're a much better player - and find you score very similarly on them.

I don't know about that specific case as I don't really play GF - other GF players can probably comment - but just because you get widely differing results on two songs of the same level doesn't mean one of them is wrongly rated.

[aeriyu]

Originally Posted by ocyl

So I played GF V5 for the first time yesterday afternoon. Presentation (e.g. audio, video, signs, etc.) is nicely done and well delivered, but something *is* seriously wrong with the difficulty rating system. Case in point:

絶望ビリー ADV (45, Long) -> A
CHIMERA ADV (41, Long) -> F

In the case that you're talking about the guitar charts... that's because 絶望ビリー is a slow (~170bpm) switching-based song, whereas Chimera is triplet-picking. I agree that CHIMERA, especially the lower charts, should be rated higher on this fact alone -- how many other songs of similar levels involve triplet-picking... for the entire song?

On the other hand, Chimera doesn't feature very much in terms of changing, and like I said before, there's very little variation with regards to notechart patterns. There's even this really annoying faster part about 30-40% into the song that'll likely break a lot of people's combos... like the double->triple->quad time in the beginning and double->triple time sections in that new TERRA song.

[ocyl]

Originally Posted by ocyl

Case in point:

絶望ビリー ADV (45, Long) -> A
CHIMERA ADV (41, Long) -> F

絶望ビリー ADV is a lot closer to 45 than CHIMERA ADV is to 41. I would have put CHIMERA ADV in the 60s+.

Reference

蛍 ADV @ 45 (Long) -> S

Originally Posted by Opethian

I have never used light ever in GF
maybe thats why I cant pass anything higher than 65-68s

good thing I never got used to the mod

I am sorry but I wasn't talking about you nor me at the end of my last post, but the player population in general and especially the new comers to the series. Have you watched any newbie play lately? Don't you feel bad for them at all in any way, shape, or form? Doesn't the situation in which more of them seem to completely give up before getting into the game make you worried about the future outlook of the GF & DM series? I mean, heck, even beatmania IIDX, a series that's generally considered to have the steepest learning curve among Bemani games, is comparatively more beginner-friendly than GuitarFreaks these days.

Originally Posted by aeriyu

In the case that you're talking about the guitar charts... that's because 絶望ビリー is a slow (~170bpm) switching-based song, whereas Chimera is triplet-picking. I agree that CHIMERA, especially the lower charts, should be rated higher on this fact alone -- how many other songs of similar levels involve triplet-picking... for the entire song?

On the other hand, Chimera doesn't feature very much in terms of changing, and like I said before, there's very little variation with regards to notechart patterns. There's even this really annoying faster part about 30-40% into the song that'll likely break a lot of people's combos... like the double->triple->quad time in the beginning and double->triple time sections in that new TERRA song.

Agreed and thank you; good and knowledgeable comments there

[aeriyu]

Originally Posted by ocyl

I am sorry but I wasn't talking about you nor me at the end of my last post, but the player population in general and especially the new comers to the series. Have you watched any newbie play lately? Don't you feel bad for them at all in any way, shape, or form? Doesn't the situation in which more of them seem to completely give up before getting into the game make you worried about the future outlook of the GF & DM series? I mean, heck, even beatmania IIDX, a series that's generally considered to have the steepest learning curve among Bemani games, is comparatively more beginner-friendly than GuitarFreaks these days.

True, GFDM/s beginner mode is almost as useful as Guitar Hero/Rock Band's Easy modes in that they don't really you develop the skills you need to do well in the game. And yes, I do agree to a point that it really sucks for players totally new to the game to not have light mode at their disposal. I see this in another light, however...

I'm sure we all have our newbie stories -- some might involve LIGHT, some might not. Mine doesn't, but that won't condemn LIGHT-users to eternal damnation and ridicule. Those more familiar with the game love to say "don't play with it, the results you get with LIGHT lie to you". Some care about this, some don't; some are ashamed of having to use LIGHT, while others simply don't want to put in the time/effort required to wean themselves off it.

When you first play a game, it is very unreasonable to expect to be able to handle difficult parts. Even if you're a natural gamer, or "gaming genius", there are limits to your abilities -- game-specific niceties constrain the new player's progress. That being said, it's just as strange to expect to be able to play all the songs available in GFDM. If your level is around 40 or so, even with LIGHT mode on, you may still fail on the more difficult songs... that, in and of itself, is indicative of <something missing> that prevents one from passing (and thus playing) these difficult songs. The "Easy" mod doesn't help me play 冥<A>, albeit that particular mod having less of an effect than does LIGHT in GF, but I'm sure we can all draw our own examples.

Ocyl does have a point -- simply taking out the LIGHT mode throws a wrench in things and makes it hard for new players to pick up the game. One might argue the 2 auto modes are equally great/horrible for the same reasons. I really don't think it makes a difference, though -- a newbie won't even know that the function exists

If you really want to play, you'll put in your money regardless. If you pick hard songs and keep failing... well, it's your money lol. Train yourself or not, it's ultimately your choice -- the modes available to you shouldn't impact your resolve



By the way, when I see a newbie playing, I secretly go "ufufufufu..." in my head...

[ocyl]

Originally Posted by ocyl

I also agree with what's been said in this thread before regarding the increased overall difficulty. I've noticed that note charts of new songs below or at 40 have become more complex, too.

I would like to note, once again, that in addition to all these options and modes, moving the overall difficulty up isn't helping, either. It runs the danger of pushing the series further into a niche market.

Anyway, the From Staff section of the official website has been updated with new entries.

From Staff

高田 = Hard (Quality Assurance / Testing)
うどん釣られ師 B.T. = Programmer
もっちー = Designer
96ちゃん = Composer
肥塚 良彦 = Composer

Originally Posted by aeriyu

By the way, when I see a newbie playing, I secretly go "ufufufufu..." in my head...

Heheh

[AdamW]

My impression is that V5 adds more low-ranked songs than V4 or V3 did. This is the case, at least, on drums.

I don't buy the 'noobs need light' argument. Sorry, I just don't. It may be the case that 'noobs need light to feel l33t', in the sense that it's certainly a lot easier to work your way up to high-level songs relatively fast if you use light. But it's perfectly possible for just about any five-thumbed idiot to pick up Guitarfreaks and not die on a level 10-20 song without light mode, and that's all you need for noobs. You then work your way up from there at whatever pace is appropriate for you.

I barely play GF, but I can pass level 20-30 songs and a few 30-40 songs okay and I don't use light. When I started on DM I played level 10-20 songs for like three weeks. So I wasn't playing at high levels - what's the problem? I was having fun and improving my skills, gradually.

If you need to be playing a high number song to feel like you're having a good time, then that probably points to a problem with you more than the game.

If it was impossible to get anywhere at the game without light mode, sure, you'd have a point. But it just isn't.

[Checky]

ITT Story time with Checky.

Maybe I had a problem with the way I learned, I dunno. I can't remember the last time I played a song on advanced. I can honestly say the last time I played basic/advanced was before I really started trying. When I really started, I started off with 40 and 50 extremes that I could pass, and worked my way up from there. At this point, I was mostly downpicking, and could basically pass all these songs no problem, albeit with poor grades. Then I got my first excellent on Rewrite EXT and I was hooked on getting better and getting more excellents, no matter what I had to do. When I got up into 60's/70's, downpicking just didn't cut it anymore. When a noob starts, the first week is basically learning how to control your left hand and down pick at the same time. After that, you should be able to clear any song up to 30 no problem, unless you don't know about speed mods. If your playing on 1x, then you deserve to be a noob =.=""... anyways.. my point is I just kept plugging away at all the extremes I could pass, even though I failed quite a few songs and got bad results for a while. I remember the first time I played Green Lime. I had already passed a few 80's, but I had never come across rapid quadruplets before. Suffice to say I failed about a quarter of the way into the song, just because I couldn't do that pattern. Once you play a lot of songs, you will get a lot better. You will not see a lot of new patterns if you play the same 10 songs over and over again. To this day, I still cannot get rapid double double-switching patterns, i.e: Captivate Bass.... I tried so much but just could never get it. Some people can't get some patterns, some people can't get the game period. For example me and Pop'n Music. It took me about 3 days to be able to play level 31's - 32's, but In a year or so of casual play (very seldom), I have yet to pass anything above a 33. Some people just don't click with some games.

TL;DR: Checky is a noob lol, and I'm white.

Also I'm watching all you noobs.

[Death_Nylon]

Does the "official difficulty" of a song really matters with the "exact difficulty" of it to all people? I think not. Simply talking about level is how new player behaves. Take patterns as examples, everybody have their strength and weakness in different fields. Some may be good at 2-2 but weak in 3-3. Some may be weak in SRA but raping RAN. It depends on individuals.

Therefore taclking with every pattern does help improving quickly.

Ehm, I am yellow.

[=Surreal=]

Originally Posted by Death_Nylon

Ehm, I am yellow.

Ehhhh Yellow brother High 5~

[Death_Nylon]

Originally Posted by =Surreal=

Ehhhh Yellow brother High 5~

Believe me, Surreal, you know me, and you will soon find out who I am.
Keep that a secret at the meantime