Help with DM patterns like FSW and Revolution

[ChaoTime]

So I'm having a bit of trouble with those fast strings of hi-hat, hi-hat snare, hi-hat, hi-hat snare, etc. Songs like Funky Sonic World, that one American license from V4, Idle Gossip (If Idle Gossip were faster anyway), and Revolution (The ending). I guess people call it a suction pattern. While it doesn't seem hard, my arms almost always die due to cramping and/or stamina. I usually pull my right arm over to get the hi-hat and I kind of repeatedly press the stick with my last 2 fingers every time it bounces and that kind of helps. I learned it from the video below. Video's slow as hell but it helped.
YouTube - how to grip your stick and play fast with one hand

I also can't really do fast strings with my left hand on hi-hat or I'll mess up the tempo. Any suggestions so my arms don't develop some sort of arthritis?

[Opethian]

for FSW you will need Popeye forearms to make it
thats a fast hi-hat!
I just play through the cramps and miss a few of the stream, practice practice practice

[AdamW]

the tricky thing about the patterns in the songs you mention is that they're, for lack of the correct musical term, 'backwards' - the snare and bass are reversed from how you'd naturally expect them to be (think about, oh, Dragon Blade). so you sort of get out of rhythm while playing because your brain is tending back to the more 'natural' pattern. that's what happens for me, anyway.

the only solution is practice. except for revolution, which I finally passed by just hitting the fucking snare, bass AND hi-hat on every beat during the ending. I hate that song. and practice on the slower ones until you can get them consistently, there's no point bothering with FSW or revolution or TTFAF until you're nailing the slower ones perfectly.

[paskok2r]

in my case it's my left hand on snare that fucks everything up, any way to train my left arm?

[ChaoTime]

Originally Posted by AdamW

the tricky thing about the patterns in the songs you mention is that they're, for lack of the correct musical term, 'backwards' - the snare and bass are reversed from how you'd naturally expect them to be (think about, oh, Dragon Blade). so you sort of get out of rhythm while playing because your brain is tending back to the more 'natural' pattern. that's what happens for me, anyway.

the only solution is practice. except for revolution, which I finally passed by just hitting the fucking snare, bass AND hi-hat on every beat during the ending. I hate that song. and practice on the slower ones until you can get them consistently, there's no point bothering with FSW or revolution or TTFAF until you're nailing the slower ones perfectly.

Ehh, it's not essentially the bass or anything, it's just my right hand on hi-hat. I kinda need a way to bounce the stick efficiently or some other technique so my arm doesn't die. I mean, I've seen real drummers do fast stuff like that with one hand. What do they do? Cause I kinda need to learn that at some point.

Originally Posted by paskok2r

in my case it's my left hand on snare that fucks everything up, any way to train my left arm?

What I've tried recently is to put the palm of my hand facing down as opposed to having my hand in a sort of thumbs-up position. Then you try to push back the loose stick with your last fingers at each bounce, though you could try without that. It's basically what is shown in the video I linked to up top. It -kinda- works. I originally tried this for the purpose of easy drumrolls across the kit, but I guess it works with the snare.

[kssael_XG]

My post from the Accomplishments Thread:

Originally Posted by Yukkureimu

Suction patterns are a piece of cake, especially when you play them in a real kit.

Start off with 120 BPM like Dragon Blade or Aithon (since they're the easiest in EXT compared to Desert Rose, Atalante, and Ring EXT). Then play some Across The Nightmare, Seiron, or Sotto (since they're around 145-150 BPM).

The next phase are songs like ￥超深海TION￥ and Leaving All Behind (but the latter has double-hits which can be tiring) at around 170 BPM. And finally, you can do songs like TTFAF, FSW, RЁVOLUTIΦN (ending), and SAMURAI (ending) with ease, as long as you maintain your consistency.

First things first, make sure that your right foot (bass) alternates with your left hand (snare) by 8th notes each. And for your right hand (hi-hat), use the bounce after each downstroke (quarter note hit) to make a swift upstroke (quarter note hit at the 8th note line) and repeat. It is much easier in a real kit but DM/RB pads kinda forces you to hit HARDER!

[AdamW]

pasko: the obvious way would be to try playing open handed (left hand hi-hat), I guess. That'll toughen your left hand right up

[MUSCLES]

Well, the first thing you should try is to work out if you don't already. That will help.

The second thing is to focus on the main bass-snare-bass-snare rhythm. If you go off time there you'll go off time with the hat, and then you'll fail.

But also keep in mind you don't have to annihilate the machine, solid taps on the hat SHOULD trigger, if your machine isn't fubar

[Arctures]

DO NOT USE YOUR FOREARMS

I cannot stress this enough. If you use your forearms for anything that rapid, not only are you using poor technique, but you're needlessly tiring yourself out. There is a much better way that is far less strenuous on your entire body.

1: Find your grip.
I find that a lot of people who play grip the stick with their entire fist when they play, which is the entirely wrong way to play. Not only does this give you no power behind your hits, but it fucks up your wrist like there's no tomorrow. Instead, your main point of grip should be between your thumb and forefinger. Not like a pincer grip, but more of the flat part of the thumb and side of the second forefinger knuckle. Try to grip the stick at a place and with just enough force where it is allowed to bounce freely.

2: Fingers > Wrist > Forearms
At first glance, you may see the drum sticks as an extension of the arms, but in fact they are extensions of your fingers first and foremost, wrists second. Think about how a tennis player holds and swings his racket. If all of the force were to come straight from his forearms, a lot more energy would be required to produce a less-than-average serve. Instead, he uses his both his forearm and his wrist to provide more force into his swing, as it takes less energy to move the wrist than it does the arm.

The same applies to the drum set, except that this can be broken down to an extra. Drum sticks are light enough to be moved by just your fingers, so this is where most of your force should be coming from. Since your grip is (hopefully) consisting of your thumb and forefinger pinching the stick, the rest of your fingers can essentially be let free and the stick won't fall. These extra fingers (middle, ring, and pinky for those not keeping track) will be where most of your force comes from. The strike from the drum stick should come from bringing these three fingers into your hand, thus forcing the stick towards the drum with minimal effort.

3. Let the stick bounce
Now that your fist is essentially closed again, the stick cannot bounce back up. This is where you have to let momentum do its thing. Upon the stick beginning to bounce back up, release your three non-pincher fingers so as to let the stick come back up, and thus the cycle is complete. With the stick brought back up, the pattern can be repeated with minimal damage to your wrist and forearms.

4. Practice
Self-explanatory.



Also as a note, most drummers don't play open-handed.

[Meow]

Fast right hand requires a bounce tap motion. Take a lesson from Dave Weckl:
YouTube - Dave Weckl - Moeller Technique

[Arctures]

Originally Posted by Meow

Fast right hand requires a bounce tap motion. Take a lesson from Dave Weckl:
YouTube - Dave Weckl - Moeller Technique

^ this video ^

[AdamW]

arctures: I only mentioned open hand because he wanted to train his left hand, wasn't recommending it as the best way of playing or anything. nice post.

I don't think right arm speed really has much to do with it, though. the hi-hat rhythms aren't actually _that_ fast in any of these songs. I don't think anyone in this thread would have trouble playing the same hi-hat speed with a snare hit every four hi-hat hits instead of every two - it's just the constant alternating snare and bass that makes everything seem faster / more difficult.

[paskok2r]

actually bass is not the pb for cause i'm really bad too with auto bass on this song. the thing is that the way of holding the stick with my right hand is correct but not with my left hand

here is a good dm demonstration :
fsw
ドラãƒ*マニア　Funky Sonic World　HS0.5プレイâ€�ニコニコ動画(ββ)

[oni-ice]

Souhaku
Real ～Lサイズの夢～ (Real L size no yume)
Lolita Lets GoGoGo
人にやさしく
しかられ日和
Show Business

some helpful ones that i can tink of .

[DeusExMachina]

learn to switch back and forth between left hand and right hand on the hi hat is a good way to save stamina when playing songs like FSW or TTFAF. Also as previously noted try to avoid using your forearms for the main swing. I use my wrist mostly for those songs. You don"t need to hit very hard to play drummania and doing so will use unnecessary stamina.