Poll: Drummania machine in North Florida.

[RedXXX]

Okay, so I have come across the opportunity to get a 10th mix or V3 machine, and putting it in a local arcade in the area. I haven't talked to the owners of either arcade I can have it hosted at (Splitz Bowling Center, or the Reitz student union on the UF campus,) but I want to be as serious as possible before I make any further moves.

I know the Bemani scene has died a bit, but with the new Rock Band phenomenon, it seems possible it could succeed to some level. Please be assured this could be serious depending on what feedback people give me. I have figured that about 15 plays a day @ $.75 a game will pay for itself and then some in just over a year. (The crappy SN machine here at UF makes much more than that to my knowledge) It can be here within 3 months if the idea seems logical. I've gotten invoices with shipping and everything, so all I have to do is order it and pay the operating taxes on it.

What would you guys think about this? Is it a good idea to shell out several hundred more to go for V3, or get 10th and upgrade it after I see how well it does? Or would talking to the manager/owner, about having a poll at the arcade to see what the public would think of it. I just don't want the ignorant kids thinking badly about it, as many may see it as a "rip-off," which has been very common seen since Guitar Hero came out.

Please give me some feedback on what you guys may think about this investment I may be looking into.

[zorahk]

Lol, you have no idea how to do this do you.

Where are you buying this from, the U.S. or Japan? If it's within the U.S., there's a very high chance you are paying too much for it. But then again, I also doubt you have any real connections in Japan. Secondly, you are not going to be able to just magically pull a BemaniPC upgrade out of thin air, especially considering you are not an arcade nor a distributor. You need to buy the machine with the BemaniPC in it or you will never have the opportunity to obtain one. Also, coin sharing is a retarded idea. You are not going to make money off this machine unless you put it in a location where you get 100% profit. DM machines require a lot of upkeep, such as new sticks and drum pads. In fact, at SVGL, I feel like DM breaks the most often, especially the snare.

Long story short, don't buy this machine unless you are buying it FOR YOURSELF. Don't buy a machine because you think you are going to make money off it, BECAUSE YOU WON'T.
I bought a Pop'n 16 machine, and I am perfectly content knowing that I will not see any gains from it. I like the game enough that I don't care.

ALSO: Don't get into debt for an arcade machine. Pay for it out of pocket.

[Kσn]

I would say V3, but then again zorahk makes some very good points. People wont play Drummania because... Well because its not Rock Band/Guitar Hero. Because they know its not, people are not going to bother playing it besides Bemani players. However that's a very small fanbase to be making money off of, so investing in this machine is probably not the best idea unless your going to use it for yourself. The aracde owners also probably have no idea what they are investing in... Hell their not paying for it, they just want to profits from you.

Point- Don't coin Share, it does not work, if you are going to buy it to play Drummania, buy it for yourself to Play Drummania, and have people in the Bemani community come over and play it for a small donation, that way you help pay of the electricity it uses, and maintenance.

[Checky]

Do not buy 10th. You need to buy a hardware upgrade and speaker upgrade to change to V-V3, or Bemani PC to go for V4 and up. If you buy 10th, you will only have about 100 songs, V3 has more than 400. V3 also has a way better interface, more options, and is a way better game overall. Imo it's very expensive to put a DM into an American arcade because you will be changing the pads every 3-6 months just from people beating on them and destroying them.

[RedXXX]

See, you guys all have some great input. The exact reason I asked this question.

I have been toying with the idea of having it either at home or an arcade. The main reason for the arcade is to possibly get some people to know about Bemani games other than DDR. But the ignorance of people may hinder the possibility of it doing anything. So I figured I can probably get by with improvising if I had to if I kept it at home. That's probably what would happen in the end anyways. I also figure that it could be used for more than just DM with a bit of effort. As it's an upright machine, I could possibly use it for other games as well. Can that be done? Because I would waste no time building a custom ASC for it.

[June.H]

People actually COULD play it because it's a GH/RB rip-off. If it's in a high traffic area, you may actually get the opposite effect.

We had GFdm V4 sessioned testing here, people played the GF machine thinking it was a GH rip-off, but their curiousity pretty much had them playing it.

As for which version, it depends on who's playing. If you know you have a fanbase playing or looking, get V3. If the hardcore playerbase is low, save some money on 10th unless you feel you have the extra hundred to spare for V3 (which is honestly much better).

[RedXXX]

Originally Posted by June.H

People actually COULD play it because it's a GH/RB rip-off. If it's in a high traffic area, you may actually get the opposite effect.

We had GFdm V4 sessioned testing here, people played the GF machine thinking it was a GH rip-off, but their curiousity pretty much had them playing it.

As for which version, it depends on who's playing. If you know you have a fanbase playing or looking, get V3. If the hardcore playerbase is low, save some money on 10th unless you feel you have the extra hundred to spare for V3 (which is honestly much better).

Well the difference is $850, so I just want to make sure it's worth it. But since it's on different hardware, that's something I would like to also think about before getting. I guess even if it's for my own personal use, it comes to only a few bucks extra for a song, so that takes the sting out a bit. Not to mention the better hardware. But either way, it seems like upgrading is just out of the question.

The fanbase issue, I've been asking around when I hit up the arcades, and pretty much nobody has heard of it. Or if they have, they have only heard the name and that's about it. I'm pretty much the only hardcore Bemani player in this city, which is quite sad. But I just thought if it were to be put in the new bowling alley, which is going to see a lot of traffic compared to everywhere else, it would get beat on A LOT. With little kids running around smacking it and teenagers wailing on it, it's sure to be due to much more repairs.

I have heard some of the parts are based off of the Yamaha DTX series. Is that only true for the compatibility of the PS2 versions, or the arcade as well?

[zorahk]

It is a modified Yamaha DTX, but the parts are unique to drummania. IE: replacement parts are expensive and hard to find.

Also, don't buy 10th mix. You will regret never being able to upgrade the machine. 850 dollars is nothing in terms of difference for a BemaniPC. An Italian bootlegger would charge you 2 grand for one, if he could even get a hold of it. You are stuck with the hardware you buy the machine with until Japan stops using BemaniPC. That's the hard facts about upgrading

[RedXXX]

There's suppliers that sell spare parts like lights, speakers, and the drum pads and sensors. I've looked it all up. But from what I've seen, V3 is running on the Konami Playstation 2 based hardware, which is just a PS2 with a special board attached to it. unlike 10th which is a PS1 system. But V4 is when they introduced BemaniPC to the series. And that shows no sign of letting up as that system can be easily upgraded to a more powerful game. But with all of the hacking going around, they might change the hardware to prevent it from happening more often. Then it could become less expensive, but that's a while from now.

As far as my questions go, they're done. And as of now it's a 50/50 thing. I'm going to move soon, and I would have to move into a house where it could actually be placed. I need to know if it's possible to disassemble some of the parts to get it inside. I've seen DDR machines make it into a bedroom, so it seems probable. But what about DM, because from my knowledge, there's nobody that has one to themselves on these forums. I just gotta see if it can be moved relatively easily if it's needed. Getting it through the door that is, and a truck is easy since I can rent one with a cargo lift. And it's being brought to a business my dad's friend owns, so that makes the freight shipping thing a breeze. But seriously, why don't more people play this one? I've done all of them pretty much, and this one is by far the most innovative and fun to play. I'm sick of the DDR and Dance Maniax (does anybody even care about that one?) machines we have here.

Does anybody know of a good courier company? I've attempted to get quotes, but all I'm getting is companies that can only do full container shipments. My supplier said it would be around $500, which seems a bit low. Then again, I know nothing about freight shipping.

[Kσn]

getting it through a door should not be a problem, the machine is pretty beefy, but it should clear the door fine. You can remove the footpedal pretty easily if it giving you trouble, as well as the pads and bars that hold out the pads I believe.

Also there are people that do own a Drummania machine in their house, they just dont post on here.

The other point I want to throw out is its your decision. As June.H said if its a place that gets many people inside then you could have a chance of making profit as it resembles Rock Band/Guitar Hero. But you have to also remember this is America, our arcades SUCK. Plus the people are even ruder. You may risk damaging the machine when putting it on location.

[RedXXX]

Originally Posted by ΩOMEGAΩ

getting it through a door should not be a problem, the machine is pretty beefy, but it should clear the door fine. You can remove the footpedal pretty easily if it giving you trouble, as well as the pads and bars that hold out the pads I believe.

Also there are people that do own a Drummania machine in their house, they just dont post on here.

The other point I want to throw out is its your decision. As June.H said if its a place that gets many people inside then you could have a chance of making profit as it resembles Rock Band/Guitar Hero. But you have to also remember this is America, our arcades SUCK. Plus the people are even ruder. You may risk damaging the machine when putting it on location.

Well from what I'm getting, a profit is probably not going to happen, and I'm fine with that. Just the feeling of accomplishment of doing this would be worth tons to me. And even if it brings in enough to pay for replacement parts, and maybe a couple bucks extra, I'll be happy. I guess a big concern is the beating it would take. It's probably easier to break than a DDR machine as far as the drum pads go, but the cabinet should stay intact. We just had a new bowling center/sports bar built here in town that sees a decent crowd. So with that in place, and knowing they are adding more machines to their building, it can go off without a hitch if the owners agree for this to happen. Which I see no reason it couldn't work. It would bring new and old players to them, and they're getting a DDR machine too, so there should be a good amount of traffic for at least a few months. I'm going to scout the place a few times a week to see what the peak business is like.

I'm perfectly content knowing it won't make any profit. But I figure, there's nothing remotely close to here, and if there was, it would be most likely an old version since upgrades are very difficult to come by. Also not counting the tons of money I would be putting into it myself, it would almost break even. And if all else fails, I can always resell it. And the US will see another machine. What's to lose?

[zorahk]

There's suppliers that sell spare parts like lights, speakers, and the drum pads and sensors. I've looked it all up.

I just hope you are not talking about coinopexpress or channel beat, because both of them are a joke.

It might not fit in a standard doorway, see if it can be taken apart. My pop'n machine will not fit through and is going in my garage.

For shipping, if it's from Japan contact IEC Inc, and if it's for the U.S. call up NAVL (north american van lines).

[RedXXX]

Originally Posted by zorahk

I just hope you are not talking about coinopexpress or channel beat, because both of them are a joke.

It might not fit in a standard doorway, see if it can be taken apart. My pop'n machine will not fit through and is going in my garage.

For shipping, if it's from Japan contact IEC Inc, and if it's for the U.S. call up NAVL (north american van lines).

Yeah, that's what I've been wondering. When I do move, I'm going to look for a place with a garage if possible, or a sliding door. Luckily the dimensions of the cabinet will let me slide it in with a couple inches to spare, but take off the drum pads and bass pedal, it may be a bit easier. There's tons of people renting houses to students in my city, so I am not worrying about that too much right now. But it is something I am concerned about and might blow the whole deal.

The company I've been speaking with is called Highway Entertainment, which is an Australian based company. And from what I've seen, they look like a more legitimate company than crap like Coinopexpress or Channel Beat, which I don't even know if they are real companies or not. I think those websites are for speculation to get people to think they're worth a ton even though they aren't. The company has several warehouses around the world, and the specific one I'm looking at is in Hong Kong. They're an easy company to find on google, so maybe you could take a look and tell me what you think of them.

The price they are asking seems reasonable at $2500 for V3, as it is used. And the shipping should be around $500 as they quoted me. I just hope this isn't one of those "too good to be true" things or I'll feel like a complete jackass. But let's hope that isn't the case.

[zorahk]

Well, I personally have no experience dealing with them. My Japanese distributor has V2 for 3,000 and V4 for 4,000, and even a V5 at 5,000. HE's price is much better, but I wonder what the condition is like. Then again, my distro is weird, some prices are crazy good (ala KBM 2 for 800 or BM the final for 500, or Supernova for 2,500) and some are kinda meh.

Also you are not factoring in customs, which can be a nightmare (ok, it's not that bad, but I hate bureaucracy). I am dealing with that right now. There is a bunch of paperwork to file, which is what I have been doing the past 10 hours or so. You are going to need a passport, SS card, driver's license, and sign a Power of Attorney form, not to mention pay the duties once it arrives.


EDIT: Have you noticed HE's pricing scheme makes no sense? Why is Drummania 2 more expensive than 10th? Something is fucked up here.

Also, why do the v3's pricing vary from 2500.00 - 5715.00 USD
The one in Japan is used and listed at 5715. The one in Hong Kong is reconditioned at 2500.00
Shouldn't reconditioned cost more than used?


Again, something is really weird about their site.

If you want, I can give you the contact info / website for my distributor in Japan, but if you don't speak Japanese it may be hard to reach a deal with them.

[RedXXX]

Originally Posted by zorahk

Well, I personally have no experience dealing with them. My Japanese distributor has V2 for 3,000 and V4 for 4,000, and even a V5 at 5,000. HE's price is much better, but I wonder what the condition is like. Then again, my distro is weird, some prices are crazy good (ala KBM 2 for 800 or BM the final for 500, or Supernova for 2,500) and some are kinda meh.

Also you are not factoring in customs, which can be a nightmare. I am dealing with that right now. There is a bunch of paperwork to file, which is what I have been doing the past 10 hours or so. You are going to need a passport, SS card, driver's license, and sign a Power of Attorney form, not to mention pay the duties once it arrives.

Oh crap! Good call on that, I would have never thought about customs until it was too late probably. Well since you have experience with this sort of thing, could you guide me in the right direction? I see now it can be a bit more than dealing with the shipping companies and the vendor. But my god is there a bunch of stuff on dealing with importing. I mean, I've shipped stuff to Canada, and that was as simple as filling out a couple pieces of paper at the post office.

I'm looking at the government page about this, and there's just so much stuff. Should I try contacting a customs broker? Like what could I be facing? It seems paying the duties will be the largest hurdle, and from what I see, if it's under $2000 of a declared value, and is for a personal use, it can usually be passed through easily. But then, several years ago I sent a couple DDR bundles up to Ontario, as a gift, and they had to pay some $40 in duties. And then when I sent my old mixer with the max declared value of $1000, the guy didn't pay anything. So confusing...

Damn, this just got way more confusing than I ever thought it would be. So it looks like I have a bit of planning for the next couple months or so. It's going to be at least 3 months until I can have all the funds to pay for the machine and shipping, and now I have no clue as to what I may face now. I see here that with freight shipping, the customs duties are covered by the distributor or the hired customs broker of the receiving courier here in the states. Where the heck would I begin?

Originally Posted by zorahk

EDIT: Have you noticed HE's pricing scheme makes no sense? Why is Drummania 2 more expensive than 10th? Something is fucked up here.

Also, why do the v3's pricing vary from 2500.00 - 5715.00 USD
The one in Japan is used and listed at 5715. The one in Hong Kong is reconditioned at 2500.00
Shouldn't reconditioned cost more than used?


Again, something is really weird about their site.

If you want, I can give you the contact info / website for my distributor in Japan, but if you don't speak Japanese it may be hard to reach a deal with them.

Well that is something I am trying to work out directly with this supplier. They are asking for a 30% deposit to have it held, and to have pictures taken for me. And if I am dissatisfied with what I see, the money will be refunded to me.

I have no clue as to speaking Japanese, and wouldn't be able to do much unless there was somebody who speaks English. And from what you're saying, it seems it could be difficult working with your people. I really don't want to break $3500, because I think after that, it will be too much for me to handle cost wise.

Maybe I'm trying to jump into a pool I can't swim in? I'm getting that impression from what you're telling me. I don't want to think that, but it looks like having the money might not be all I would need. I mean I'm making sacrifices which I'm comfortable doing, but I don't want to be left hanging dry is something goes wrong.