Ransai feedback

Syxx · 09-05-2006, 07:11 PM

I preordered a IIDX controller as soon as they began taking preorders for the controllers last year around October or so thinking that I would get mine in a short period of time (It said the expected time was around November or so and then got pushed back to December). After waiting several months they said that they still had not made a single one so I asked to have my money sent back to me. They said that they couldn't and I had to sell my preorder to someone else. This doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. At that point I decided that I would wait it out a little bit more because to be honest, I really wanted a ransai IIDX controller (or else I wouldn't have ordered one in the first place) but after waiting a few more months and seeing little to no updates on ransai's website I filed a complaint with the BBB and a few days later I had the money from my preorder sent to me.

My friend werd also preordered one but he decided that he wanted to cancel his preorder as well. It's been almost a year now and there haven't been any major updates, and besides, he doesn't even play anymore. But they told him that me getting a refund was a special exception (probably because I filed a complaint with the BBB and the guy who owns the company runs it from his parents home). So anyway if he doesn't send a refund soon, my friend is probably going to do the same thing I did. It's been too long and there's no reason why the money should be tied up in anything else other than our controllers, which I was under the impression that this whole time that it wasn't. It's like taking a loan that you can just pay back whenever (by finally building the stupid things) with no interest.

So anyway the morel of the story is filing a complaint with the BBB takes like 5 minutes online and get things done... don't sell your place in line for something that will probably never be made and delivered to you.

WiLLiSTER · 09-05-2006, 09:48 PM

Because, you know, it's not like he does other stuff.

I can see where you are coming from though. I'm still going to go ahead and get mine. <3 K//Eternal

Syxx · 09-05-2006, 11:35 PM

"it's not like he does other stuff"

I seem to have time to work a regular job, a part time job, and have time for "other stuff."

Seriously though it's been a year.

You totally missed the point.

Arkaaito · 09-06-2006, 12:56 AM

This seems to be a stretch of the Feedback Forum's intended purpose. But anyway, my $0.02:

Random's statement has always been that the money paid in is tied up in parts for the controllers. I suspect that this is somewhat an exaggeration, but largely true. The money you pay in advance is a "materials deposit" - necessary so he can buy the stuff to make your controller. Since many of those things (Sanwas, anyone?) take a long time to obtain, it makes sense for him to purchase them as soon as possible.

My impression is that Random does not keep Ransai's accounts separate from his own. It would be hard or impossible to do so successfully, given that he's still young and very much in his family's orbit. I know what my family would have done if I had a bunch of cash sitting in a bank account in case people started demanding refunds on something I'd sold.

It's easy to fall into this kind of situation when you're running a business and you're its sole employee. Does that make it any better? No, not really. But it does make your comments a bit nonsensical - you point out that you had no reason to expect it would take a year (which could be debated, BTW), but you also fail to point out that you had no reason to believe you would be given a refund on demand, either.

There was no maximum length of time stated as part of the order agreement, whether you thought it was implicit or not. He has a non-zero investment in parts at this stage, parts which will need to be used on someone else's order if he wants to avoid taking a substantial loss. Since he's not in violation of his contract, no matter how righteously or unrighteously pissed you may be, it seems logical that the responsibility for finding a new buyer for those parts falls on you, not him.

Would it be so hard to find someone to buy your slot? I've heard at least two people (on these forums and others) make an open offer to do so for anyone who no longer wants their RansaIIDX. It seems more that you're bothered at the concept. Stop fighting over the imagined moral high ground... it gets old.

Syxx · 09-06-2006, 10:19 AM

"this seems to be a stretch of the feedback forum's intended purpose" I saw the ad for the other site on this site awhile back. Where else should I have put this topic, mr. moderator?

"there was no maxiumum length time states as part of the order agreement" but he did put up that if you were in this order in the queue your order would be ready between 2 dates. So lets see, maybe 7 months after that date and they have put up little to no communication on their web site that maybe I better worry about the 180 bucks I gave this guy? And why would I expect it not to take so long when the only really active topic on their web site is "THE WAIT IS OVER!!!!!"

I did try selling my slot with no response. My friend did too. He didn't get any offers either. But why should that be our problem?

Well the point is I got my money back and if other people want to also there are options rather than asking over and over again.

We'll see how long it takes to make the first few and then i'll come back and laugh when I see that 6 months later not a single one has been made.

Why did you even respond this this topic in the first place? Did you order a iidx controller too? Go back and play US beatmania, you had no reason to post in this topic in the first place.

Arkaaito · 09-06-2006, 11:07 PM

"Where else should I have put this topic..."

I would have chosen General Discussion and/or IIDX Discussion, but it's probably a matter of taste. I suppose I can see your argument for putting it here, and I guess I'd even agree save that you seem to be ranting. Yes, I can empathize with your desire to do so, but at the same time, I don't go to Marketplace for soapboxing.

The dates Random gave were ESTIMATES. Yes, he should have had things ready by those dates (or given more reasonable dates in the first place), but failing to do so is not a breach of contract.

"Go back and play US beatmania, you had no reason to post in this topic in the first place."

Or I could go play 3rd style. Or 4th style. Or 5th style. Or 6th style. Or 7th style. Or 8th style. Or 9th style. Or 10th style. Or 11th style. Get the point?

Why is it that everyone who disagrees with you must automatically be an inferior Bemani-lover, or something? This is a b-penis thing, isn't it? :-S

Minato Arisato · 09-07-2006, 01:12 AM

Um.. I have my Ransai IIDX controller.

And Random is allowed to have a life outside of making controllers, because last I checked he just got a new job; and a quite amazing one.

Why don't you just IM him or call him or something, instead of trying to start a flame war on Bemanistyle?

Syxx · 09-07-2006, 04:06 AM

no need, i already got my money back finally last month

this was put up as a warning/whatever to other people who have either ordered a controller or were thinking about ordering one

I hadn't seen a single thing on their site stating that any controllers have been sent out, where were you in the queue?

I passed up getting an official konami ASC for this which is why I'm a little irate, and also because it took so long to get any kind of response, that's pretty much it.

WiLLiSTER · 09-08-2006, 12:17 AM

I'm the first in the queue at the moment so whenever mine gets here, I'll come back. Though I'm pretty patient since I have no time to play until Winter vacation and then the next chance will be summer =[

DJ JON · 09-11-2006, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gir

Um.. I have my Ransai IIDX controller.

And Random is allowed to have a life outside of making controllers, because last I checked he just got a new job; and a quite amazing one.

Why don't you just IM him or call him or something, instead of trying to start a flame war on Bemanistyle?

You are the only person who got one. You told me that in person. AND you said it was a beta.

This guy is just trying to help other people out. He has all the right in the world to be frustrated with Ransai for not delivering the product.

桜の色 · 09-15-2006, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ JON

You are the only person who got one. You told me that in person. AND you said it was a beta.

This guy is just trying to help other people out. He has all the right in the world to be frustrated with Ransai for not delivering the product.

Especially after investing a whole shit ton of money and waiting nearly a year for a IIDX controller. I understand Random has a life and that Redsai is no longer helping him, but seriously there is no reason that the controllers should be taking this long.

And if there is, then why the hell does he have the Mall open and not just go back to the old system of having a set of 5-10 preorder spots open and then spending time making those controllers. Instead of making EVERYONE'S at once. Last I checked, the more professional thing to do would be to make the controllers for the people who ordered first. Instead of waiting around on "parts" for all 30 something controllers and building them at one time.

I'm sorry, but Syxx has every right in the world to be upset at the way Ransai is being run in terms of getting their products out. You do not run a business and then run into a year's worth of snags and proceed not to refund someone's money after they were expecting to get a controller in a month or two. Nearly a year is a ridiculous amount of time to wait. I mean, by that point, I could have saved up and gotten TWO Konami ASCs.

I seriously considered getting a Ransai, but after I realized how long the wait times were on the queue and like not even the first person had gotten theirs yet, I decided against it. It's just not worth my time.

Syxx · 09-16-2006, 02:46 AM

One other member of this site filed a complaint with the BBB.

I just wanted to let people know that there ARE options to having this guy sit on their money for such a long period of time. If you still want to wait to see these controllers see the light of day, the by all means, that is definately your choice. I did the same thing but enough was enough.

Peace.

delitachan · 09-26-2006, 06:33 AM

There are people who have been waiting since May. That's a long time and they still haven't received it. I haven't recieved mine and to me, it seems like I may not until December or so. Maybe.

Where is the BBB?

I emailed asking for a refund on my deposit but I'm not sure what thier refund policy is. I just want the BBB site so I can have that in case this gets difficult.

Thank you Styx for the warning. I'm sure they are not having crooked practices, but I think he took on more than he can handle.

Eight · 10-02-2006, 10:36 PM

I think the wait times are getting a bit ridiculous. I can half understand parts... but the Pop'n line is, what, three months behind?

I think someone should just call Random out and get a statement.

Edit: Actually, I don't know how current the Pop'n line is kept. I'd sure hope it isn't a few months behind...

I hate to be one of the dissenters in here, but I think people need to cut him a tad bit of slack. He's got a shit-ton on his hands that no one can really aid him with. The IIDX thing was a huge endeavor to begin with, mind you all. Didn't he have to develop some of the structures himself and then obtain some hard to get parts?

I'm not saying this justifies a year or so wait. It doesn't. If I were him, I'd be sending everyone in the line an email. For a buisness that small, it isn't too much to ask. I'd be explaining what's going on. If you were buying a product that was currently in development from me, I would definitely be keeping in touch with you every step I could. He doesn't have to deal with thousands, or even hundreds of orders. He could, realistically, still handle the greater number of his orders without the interface of the site. Why he isn't more personal in this word-of-mouth buisness is anyone's guess.

The sad thing is the BBB wouldn't do us any good here. They might be able to shut him down, but besides money that has been almost completely converted into parts, no one would gain anything from the situation. Patience and understanding might.

Alex · 10-02-2006, 11:17 PM

I have a quick question for you, Syxx. Why make this thread now, when it's obvious that the controllers are in full swing production, after the final problems in the process have been solved?

The main delay was in getting supplies and in finding a revamped turntable mounting mechanism. Most, if not all of the delays in the process thusfar have been caused by waiting on other people. Having to wait over two months to talk to a professional engineer to discuss the stability and mounting of the custom turntable mechanism. Having the machine shop making the turntable platter from which all of the others will be molded take an extended vacation with no warning. Sanwa being almost impossible to contact. Those are the kinds of problems that kept coming up during production, and they were never really a secret, either.

Not only that, but Random doesn't take any shortcuts in the process when and if problems arise, since if you can't have the best solution right away, you wait until you do. The end product will reflect this.

But that's all in the past now, and people's controllers are about to be finished up and shipped out. So why bring all this up now, when everything is just about done?