State of the Theming Community - September 2007

[AJ 187]

"Oh boy, another one of these again," I can hear you say. Well, I was going to save this for when I released my last public theme here, but I've been put on the spot by a fellow themer who I've shown the bulk of this material to before.

Ever since I got here I've felt that Bemanistyle wasn't really "THE place" for theming discussion. Maybe it's because I'm one of the few people who were from the DDRManiaX era, or maybe because administration here is too tight/there are too many rules that run contrary to how other forums I frequent work. I don't know.

What I do know is that this place (the theming section, that is) has gone to hell in the last few months. A lot of this is gonna feel regurgitated if you've read every post in k//'s retirement announcement, but I don't care.

The general patterns I see here and things to note:

1) Names.
Names tend to be very important. People here have a sort of loyalty to specific themers. The themers who people are most loyal to here are k//eternal and Takuya. This becomes a negative if your name isn't one of those two.

Nothing against k// or Takuya at all, though. In fact, k// and I are pretty good friends, and I've actually helped both themers out with some of their themes. However, when it comes down to theming, you generally only have a chance here if your name is one of those two. At least, that's how I feel about it, anyways.

2) Patterns.
Tell me: What themes get the most attention after weeding out k//eternal and Takuya's?

As it's been said before, the answer typically is "IIDX." Even looking into the history of theming, a lot of popular themes have had some sort of IIDX influence:

• Trance Machina
• The DanceDX theme (and DanceDX itself, with its inclusion of Dan courses)
• PROJEKT Series
• Lightning's continuation of Midiman's IIDX Gold inspired theme

This list is obviously incomplete, but you do get the idea.

Typically, anything else is only really looked at for a day or four, and then it gets tossed to the wayside. This is why feedback, especially in the early stages, is crucial. Not getting enough makes you feel like people are ignoring your work. This makes some themers not want to show off work, release it, or even worse, stop theming altogether because all their hard work will have gone to waste in the eyes of the public.

3) People are shit. (alternatively, "Some people here don't know what 'respect' means.")
Really, it tends to be specific people who are shit. It should've already been known that I don't like when people don't fully type out words, but that was pretty minor compared to what's been going on here recently. There have been end users insulting other themers. Now, there doesn't seem to be too big of a problem to me when other themers do it, since i believe in the "put up or shut up" philosophy. Generally, themers put up, since, well, they can theme. End users typically can't.

Take for example ramyishappy12, who was recently doing this in Takuya's thread. Since he can't obviously put up and reluctantly shut up, this was a problem. Luckily, some other people were able to take care of it, but you guys have to realize something:

Themers make sacrifices (such as free time, socializing, or working on other projects, among a host of others) to work on their themes, and whatever they may be, they should be respected for it. Funny that this is coming from someone who released "Original Nascence Interface 4," but it is still sincere. (I had always wanted to work on a NAKET Coder-style theme, and that's why I did it that particular theme.)

Putting it another way, I (personally) neglect other things, such as schoolwork, to theme. Theming (until recently) was way more fun to me. However, the general public has basically killed that feeling off.

4) A lack of understanding of what goes into a theme.
Continuing from there, do people actually read the readmes of themes? If they did, they'd know that theming is rarely done by one person. Now, this can still mean the physical work is done by one person. However, themers tend to show other themers things in order to get opinions on them.

This is where this specific section comes into play. Look at a Takuya theme's readme file sometime. Note now many people were involved in making it. This is why everyone's work means something.

Moving on.

k//eternal recently posted a retirement announcement thread, and it's probably been one of the most hotly debated/replied to threads in the section. As it very well should be, because how often do themers publicly retire? The other people I've seen leave (zhek, Deluxe, SPiGuMuS, among others) didn't get up and say "ok guys I'm going to stop theming now bye." They left without saying anything. It's possible they'd still theme again. They left the door open.

You do have to realize that back then the community was different. There were no themer wars back then (or they were much smaller), no emphasis or pressure put on themers, multiple people attempting the same projects. Everything was much better then, and I'm sure a lot of people who have been here since the DDRManiaX times will agree with me. There was no pressure to "OMG MAEK ANIME THEM PLZ ^_^" and "OMG RLS NEW VERSION OF SUPERNOVA PLOXX," everyone was more civilized in their critiques, people usually typed everything out in complete sentences with ACTUAL WORDS and GRAMMAR (as best as they could, since not everyone's first language was English).

What we have now is a very far cry from that. You know how they say "two steps forward, one step back"? It feels more like one step forward, four steps back.

Now, it's all up to you.
Do you want to stop this downward spiral, or do you want it to continue?

If you want to stop it, here is my advice:

1) Theme.
If you don't want to do that, then look at other themer's threads and comment. Say something. Let them know people are interested in their theme, even if you are giving constructive criticism.

2) Realize something: we all make what we want. Don't try to force people to do stuff they don't want to. Be patient with themers. This shit takes time. (read: Stop asking Takuya to release another version of SuperNOVA. He'll do it when it's ready.)

3) If all you're going to do is flame, please get the hell out, since you're part of the problem.

If it continues, you won't see me here much longer, that's for sure.

[k⁄⁄eternal]

Interesting. The last time I saw this, its context was very different, but I'll keep quiet on that. I'll just say this instead.

I hope to see a lot of this "k// monopoly" deal dissolve after I leave. People all deserve a fair chance at getting their themes recognized, and (as I think I've stated) one major reason I'm getting out of here is to make that a possibility.

I also hate being the source of so much bitterness in the community. Lighten up, okay, people? As I keep saying, our goal here is just to dress up DDR in the prettiest manner we can. I know this is related to the previous point, and I'm sorry for taking up the spotlight--if only it was larger so we could all fit.

[Oni-91]

Originally Posted by AJ 187

Funny that this is coming from someone who released "Original Nascence Interface 4," but it is still sincere. (I had always wanted to work on a NAKET Coder-style theme, and that's why I did it that particular theme.)

Glad to be of service. You sort of gave me a reason to make Rennaisance there...

[dieKatze88]

The names point is a significant point. Its practically like a brand name in this community led by people from when the year started with "19" (ok not that long, but still) and inhabited by retards that showed up when the year ended in "5" "6" or "7" (Not saying each and every one of you is an idiot, those of you that aren't probably know who you are already). AJ and I use to joke about anyone who tried to post a theme that sucked, and how it wouldn't get any attention because there wasn't a K in thier name.

So on that point I want everyone to just realize that just about every themer that was "Successful" in some way had a K in their name. Coincidence? Probably. Funny as hell? Yes.


other threads on this board make me not want to theme anymore. If for some reason I have to deal with the idiots that used to bug me back on DDR Maniax, I would still theme. Why? Because I could say "No. You can wait" and they would accept that. Most of the new people floating around this board give off the air that if they ask you for something, and you say no, that they're going to get emo bitchy about it and go cut themselves for an hour. (Remember kids, Down the road, not across the street, make the most of it.)

And thats what really bugs me. Why should I spend some of my increasingly little time writing a public theme thats going to get bitched about not coming fast enough from 12894234894523984 people or I can write Private themes that I only get bitched at by 4 or 5 people (AJ, Leave me the fuck alone about westfest ok? Thanks.) but I can take as long as I want, use any resources I can find, and produce something of true quality without having to feel this need to suppress beating you kids with a ratchet like I beat Little Girls at puzzle games.

Maybe if the community around the themers, the so labeled "Fanbase" would either put up or shut up, or just be PATIENT like they used to be, a lot of themers would feel a lot more comfortable talking about things, showing them, whatever, because they don't feel at some point or another that it has to get finished, or be perfect, or whatever, because the community is going to support what they've already done instead of bitching about what they haven't yet done.


Point two:
Point one compounds this problem, the problem that most themers don't have nearly as much time as they did before. I'm in college now, I have 12 hour days 6 days a week and the last day I have a 5 hour day. I spend MOST of my downtime sleeping because if I don't I will die. So again, why should I utilize my free time on something thats going to get publicly ripped apart for no apparent reason when I can do something that I'm not going to get flamed at for for 6 months? It took almost 2 years to complete DDR Forever. Not because its a huge project either (Because westfest is almost equally as huge and its taken about a third the time so far) its mainly a matter of only having say, 30 minute bursts of time, and how do you spend them, do you spend them appeasing people who act like 15 year old girls (AKA: Doing a public release that tries to cover users wants) or do you spend that time doing a private release? Its a hard choice to make sometimes. I really want to go back and finish KatzeUltramix, but with the way the community acts now, Im not sure if I want to spend the time on something ultimately, only AJ and I will appreciate from start to finish.




Thats my Three Fifty on the subject (Word inflation has caused this post to cost more).

[NAKU [X] Generation]

Hmmm.

I have nothing to say here.

Everything stated is true.

You may not have guessed it, but I've been here since DDRmaniaX.

I also have sat here and watched how the community has grown into a selfish, hateful, greed exploding time bomb going off every second of every day.

It's gross.

I don't know why or how this has happened, but it undoubtedly has to end.

BUT...

What I fear is that the community has become so tainted, it can't be changed.

My only hope is that, someone, somewhere will make someplace new, someplace where we can start again, with the people who care.

But, to think like that is as futile as thinking the community can heal itself.

I don't know how long I'm going to stay here either, not like my presence would be missed nor my opinions, but I don't care.

It's horrifying to see something that was once so beautiful slowly transform into a grotesque war.

I only wish I knew what started the manifestation of this hatred, but, I doubt I will ever know the answer to that.



And AJ, I don't want you to think that I'm only posting here because you told me about it in K//'s retirement thread, because that is most definitely not the case.

I'm grounded, and I wasn't ever supposed to see this laptop again, but, I snuck it out of my parents room, and when I got on here, I wanted to give K// my thoughts and opinions before he left only ending up reading what everyone has been saying, and then remembering what had been said about him in the earlier days. So I then posted what I felt about that. I was planning on commenting on here ASAP when I was done there, but I was almost caught with my comp and had to log off.

But anyways, that's all I have to say, the rest are just rants on the people that most notably ruined the community, and I'm not one to start trouble.

But that's that.

All I can do is hope for a miracle. Hope for this dreaded place to once again realize the meaning of the word KINDNESS.

[asterax]

This was pretty insightful; I haven't been here (in this version of BMS) to grab hold of what the theming community is like.

Originally Posted by AJ 187

theming is rarely done by one person

I was convinced otherwise, but it would make sense that one person could only take a theme so far. Guess I'm just used to stepfiles where most of them are only done by one person.

On a related note, maybe I should change my name to asteracks. ;p

[AJ 187]

Originally Posted by NAKU [X] Generation

And AJ, I don't want you to think that I'm only posting here because you told me about it in K//'s retirement thread, because that is most definitely not the case.

given your situation, I don't mind. I already see some things working for the better, anyways.

[andrewseburn]

I'm too new in these parts to have a valid opinion--

But I DO know a few things for sure:

1) Theming takes a LOT of time. I've barely tapped the surface of changing graphics and altering the odd metrics, and have found myself wasting away 4 hours of a day without checking what time it was.

2) I'd love to see themers stick around and keep up with their awesome work. (and it truly is awesome what they have learned to accomplish in their themes.)

3) The people who have brought this forum down this spiral need to feel very ashamed and have to--HAVE TO--learn to appreciate and thank and encourage people who are making things SELFLESSLY FOR YOUR ENJOYMENT!

4) I'm sorry for not being around soon enough to be a help in encouraging the themers who have left / are leaving.

5) Try theming for yourself at least once, and your appreciation will grow.

6a) Encouragement builds people up, and gets themes done with pleasure.
6b) Discouragement tears people down, and gets themers wanting to quit.
6c) Be smart.


7) Remember to tip your Themer! (I just changed my user title to show some enthusiasm.)

[hooky -i- vanisher]

Originally Posted by NAKU [X] Generation

All I can do is hope for a miracle. Hope for this dreaded place to once again realize the meaning of the word KINDNESS.

You know, I want to start a new theming community. I will make it a Invisionfree community at first, then it might have a subdomain on my website, then it might get its own server.

What do you think, everyone? (I'm not really a themer, but I am working on a theme)

EDIT: Here it is! Themeworld
Yes, it's called Themeworld. Pathetic.

[tweak_]

Originally Posted by les3454

You know, I want to start a new theming community. I will make it a Invisionfree community at first, then it might have a subdomain on my website, then it might get its own server.

What do you think, everyone? (I'm not really a themer, but I am working on a theme)

EDIT: Here it is! Themeworld
Yes, it's called Themeworld. Pathetic.

...No.

[AJ 187]

if anything, I'd think people would move to Intelligent SM Theming Discussion, but I dunno.

[k⁄⁄eternal]

Originally Posted by AJ 187

if anything, I'd think people would move to Intelligent SM Theming Discussion, but I dunno.

I've never heard of that until now, actually. If it picks up there might be a thing or two I'd want to do there.

[hooky -i- vanisher]

Originally Posted by tweak_

...No.

Good point.

Originally Posted by AJ 187

if anything, I'd think people would move to Intelligent SM Theming Discussion, but I dunno.

But now that you linked to that, it's going to turn into Unintelligent SM Theming Discussion if rude people go onto this thread.

[Oni-91]

Originally Posted by AJ 187

if anything, I'd think people would move to Intelligent SM Theming Discussion, but I dunno.

Good point. *jumps on bike, pedals to site, Chocolate Philosophy playing in background*

[AJ 187]

Originally Posted by les3454

But now that you linked to that, it's going to turn into Unintelligent SM Theming Discussion if rude people go onto this thread.

Well, you didn't completely read it.

"The most important rule is that you must become activated before you can post."

This basically means I control the flow of what happens in that forum. To even post in the forum requires access. Reading it is free, of course. (No, you do not have to pay to get access to the forum.)