Challenge Round - SOLO - General Discussion

[Dark Luke]

Tonight I played on my CF through all of the 10+ footers (not counting keyboard division ones) from this Solo round, along with a few easier songs to warm me up. I actually managed to pass all of the hard ITG division charts.

Here's my scores, in ITG scoring, timing, and lifebar difficulties.
24 - 80.53%
Bad Boy Alex M vs. Marc Van Damme Remix - 85.56%
DREAM OF YOU - 77.00%
Disco Dog - 92.50%
INSPIRATION - 68.80%
Inner Universe - 59.26% (Yuk. The hands are tough. tried 3 times total, passed only on the 2nd try)
Kagekiha - 63.92%
Little Little Princess - 63.92% (this gave me lots of trouble, which is the first slowdown. The mines really screwed me over, and took me 6 tries to pass this)
Together - 78.98%
Tori no Uta (Noise Rave) - 71.52%
video out c - 74.21%
fffff - 89.10%
over there - 74.06%

That's all for now, I was already sweating like hell after some of these plays...

[discovolante]

"however, i don't like the song and you kept the really poor looking graphics 1/4"

Why should I be docked points for not making graphics? I have no talent at graphics at all and I had one week... if that. I don't feel like anyone should be docked points for something like that.

[alphabet55]

Originally Posted by pokecapn

solo: a little bit of doublestepping but for the most part the big runs were handled well 3/4

There shouldn't be any doublestepping. I hate doublestepping and check very thoroughly to make sure there isn't any. Maybe you just handled a jump in a different way than I imagined you would?

edit: This is about your review of Jump.

[#Infinity]

Originally Posted by discovolante

"however, i don't like the song and you kept the really poor looking graphics 1/4"

Why should I be docked points for not making graphics? I have no talent at graphics at all and I had one week... if that. I don't feel like anyone should be docked points for something like that.

Well, perhaps the whole point is to not only make a solo stepchart for an OSC 5 song, but also to improve it in as many ways as possible. Beyond the stepchart, you could've made the simfile more enjoyable in ways such as adding lyrics, including a video, and of course, changing the graphics. You altered the bpm of the song, which was a no-no, so why shouldn't changing the graphics be essential if they're ugly and stretched like they are in Little Little Princess?

[sanchny]

Originally Posted by #Infinity

Well, perhaps the whole point is to not only make a solo stepchart for an OSC 5 song

But that was the whole point, to just make a solo stepchart. Changing everything else was optional. Changing the graphics was explicitly stated as optional and not a requirement:

Originally Posted by NekoIncardine

No you are not required to make custom graphics.

Originally Posted by #Infinity

You altered the bpm of the song, which was a no-no

This was allowed:

Originally Posted by NekoIncardine

That chart can adjust the source file as much as you wish. Fix the BPM or GAP, add new speed changes, remove some others

Plus pokecapn liked the fixed bpm.

Originally Posted by #Infinity

so why shouldn't changing the graphics be essential

Because the rules stated otherwise. Changes were allowed and optional, and should be judged somewhat if they were made. But judging changes for not being made is a bit unfair, I think.

I suppose it can fall under tilt/enjoyability, but people were under no obligation to change the graphics and shouldn't really be faulted for the original graphics they had nothing to do with.

[discovolante]

Furthermore, I HAVE NO GRAPHICAL TALENT. I have trouble drawing as is, the best I can do in PS is make mashup images. Not to mention that I liked Litte Little Princess' art to begin with.

So, since changes weren't mandatory, I think that if they weren't made, they shouldn't be judged.

[BLueSS]

Originally Posted by discovolante

So, since changes weren't mandatory, I think that if they weren't made, they shouldn't be judged.

This is the rule anyways.

Anyone whe reviewed that reviewing stuff that people *didn't* change will not have their review counted.
Review the chart.

[pokecapn]

Originally Posted by discovolante

"however, i don't like the song and you kept the really poor looking graphics 1/4"

Why should I be docked points for not making graphics? I have no talent at graphics at all and I had one week... if that. I don't feel like anyone should be docked points for something like that.

The way I see it, the enjoyability of the file now should reflect how much I enjoyed it back in the bracket it came out in, unless the reason I didn't or did enjoy it is no longer present. I gave little little princess a 0.5/4 for tilt (enjoyability) in the b2 review, citing the song and graphics as my main reasons. You fixed the bpm, making all your changes positive (a 4/4), and that bpm fix helped the enjoyability of the song a little bit, but the song and graphics were still the main "tilt" things I didn't like, thus you got a 1/4 for the enjoyability.

Originally Posted by BLueSS

This is the rule anyways.

Anyone whe reviewed that reviewing stuff that people *didn't* change will not have their review counted.
Review the chart.

Okay, what do you want me to do? In my opinion, discovolante picked an unenjoyable file for the challenge round. I gave him full credit for the changes he made as they improved the file, but I still don't like the music and don't like the graphics. I factored less points into enjoyability than the other two reviewers, so I feel like I should be allowed to take off those points if I don't enjoy the file. There's both a high review and a low review of this file in the PR now, so the squad of people who post reviews in the last day shouldn't be biased towards either opinion. I fixed my justification to reflect some of what I've said in here.

Originally Posted by alphabet55

There shouldn't be any doublestepping. I hate doublestepping and check very thoroughly to make sure there isn't any. Maybe you just handled a jump in a different way than I imagined you would?

Okay, I'll play this again after class. Expect either a 4 or a 3.5 depending on what else I notice.

[discovolante]

But... neither the songs nor the graphics were made by me, so why should I have any points docked for them? I feel like that's kind of asking a lot, personally.

[#Infinity]

Perhaps he's looking at the full presentation of the song, and not just what you brought in addition. He believes Little Little Princess was a poor song choice, as it came with bad graphics and to him wasn't a good song (I personally love it, though). If you can't fix everything that hampered the original version,then maybe you should choose an already-refined simfile to step.

[discovolante]

Originally Posted by #Infinity

Perhaps he's looking at the full presentation of the song, and not just what you brought in addition. He believes Little Little Princess was a poor song choice, as it came with bad graphics and to him wasn't a good song (I personally love it, though). If you can't fix everything that hampered the original version,then maybe you should choose an already-refined simfile to step.

I was under the impression that we would be judged based on the solo stepcharts we were making, especially in the "enjoyability" factor. If changing the art was mandatory, I might've done it. Even then I don't think it's right to dock anyone for not doing something that wasn't mandatory.

Also, as hamm and I discussed earlier, picking an already-good simfile didn't seem like a good idea to us. What if our chart wasn't as good as the original? I picked Little Little Princess because the original steps weren't very good and the BPM changes sucked. I felt I had a lot to work with to improve the simfile. Wheras if I picked Inspiration or Gasolina I'd have to live up to those amazing stepcharts.

Lastly, I really don't see how song choice factors into the grade here. There are plenty of songs I dislike that have good stepcharts. Hell I don't even like Breathe that much.

I think the begin-all, end-all factor in the final score of the entry is the quality of the stepchart itself, not the art, not the song choice. And I'm almost certain that BlueSS feels the exact same way.

[jammitch!]

I agree with the idea of picking a not-so-good file to spruce up for the round, to unlock the potential of something that didn't capture it the first time. If someone already did everything with a song there is to be done, there's not much to go back and add to.

I also agree that the perceived intent of this round was to judge the technical merit of steps and not the remainder so it's not really fair to dock for "bad graphics" in this round. It also seems like taste and "fun" should be divorced from the equation here too.

On the other hand, if a song still doesn't work for DDR, I'm sure to mention that.

As an aside, while not bad, I wouldn't describe either of those charts as "amazing."

[will-i-am]

Originally Posted by discovolante

Also, as hamm and I discussed earlier, picking an already-good simfile didn't seem like a good idea to us.

Hay! My Together file wasn't a bad simfile. It got 5th now didn't it? lol Well, anyways, I totally agree with you on both issues. For 1, I don't think it is right to judge someone for stuff they did not do. It's just like saying a person is ugly. I mean, can they really help it if they are? Unless if that person puts make-up on of course, but I'm talking about an ugly man. I'll try to stay on topic now. Second, it's good to pick a file that hasn't shown itself to be "amazing!," or "fantastic!" That's the reason I picked LiE. The steps weren't "amazing!," or "fantastic!," so I tried to spice it up a bit. I thought it worked, but I know others will not feel the same.

[hamm]

Originally Posted by will-i-am

Hay! My Together file wasn't a bad simfile.

Heh ok fair enough, I did tell Discovolante that I didn't want to do a song with an already good stepchart, but I was referring to the ITG division, just because I didn't want to end up with a chart that was a carbon copy of the original. But I guess yours was from the DDR division, so even though it had a good chart, I wouldn't end up with a carbon copy anyways. I haven't even actually played your file I'm not really a fan of DDR.

[discovolante]

Originally Posted by will-i-am

Hay! My Together file wasn't a bad simfile. It got 5th now didn't it?

No, I was just saying that it would give yourself a lot of potential to pick a song that either didn't stand out very much or didn't have good steps. Not that hamm ended up doing that. I liked Together.

But FWIW I kinda liked some parts of LLP too, so.

Jam: Whatever, I really liked both Gasolina and Inspiration a lot. This is my first OSC, so I haven't seen a lot of really well-done fan-made DDR stepcharts. But yeah I agree with your other points.