DDR B2 Results

Aeronautical Vigilante · 08-20-2006, 06:59 PM

Yeah, here they are. Two judges, plenty of public reviews (Xythar, Lilina, remind me to invite you two to judge for the next OSC. Lilina in particular practically spent more time on her review than I did on my judging per song), and one record loss.

http://ddrosc.bemanistyle.com/osc5/j...H - DDR B2.txt
http://ddrosc.bemanistyle.com/osc5/j...ging-Hawke.xls

http://ddrosc.bemanistyle.com/osc5/j...ingZounder.xls
http://ddrosc.bemanistyle.com/osc5/j...ntsZounder.txt

http://ddrosc.bemanistyle.com/osc5/j...veResults.html
http://ddrosc.bemanistyle.com/osc5/j...iveResults.ods

Keep in mind I'm making myself late for work to post these today. If there's errors, note them and I'll fix them tomorrow.

Zounder · 08-20-2006, 07:03 PM

Um, Major error, you counted the fact that I didnt judge my own entry a 0 and it was averaged in.... >_>

jesterline · 08-20-2006, 07:08 PM

I wish PlatinumHawke would actually give comments. :/

Wild Thing/Poor Boy's average is screwed up, I think. Inspiration got an 85 from Zounder, not an 84.

Oh, I was beaten to that point.

Anyway, Zounder sure thinks a lot of songs are generic... o_O So many of these songs aren't even the genre that he says that are...

Zounder · 08-20-2006, 07:12 PM

Examples please? And please don't say "techno" because I'm refering to all sub-genres when I say that. I don't feel like researching each song to find out exactly what kind of techno it is. If someone were to specify it for me it would not change the generic feeling of the song, or the score.

Also, Inspiration's score is correct, I wrote 85 in the comments by mistake but the 84 on the .xls appears to be correct.

jesterline · 08-20-2006, 07:14 PM

None of the songs are subgenres of techno.... Eurobeat, eurodance... they aren't techno at all.

I'm happy with these results enough though, I guess.

lrxevan · 08-20-2006, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zounder

Examples please? And please don't say "techno" because I'm refering to all sub-genres when I say that. I don't feel like researching each song to find out exactly what kind of techno it is. If someone were to specify it for me it would not change the generic feeling of the song, or the score.

Also, Inspiration's score is correct, I wrote 85 in the comments by mistake but the 84 on the .xls appears to be correct.

I frankly find the idea that everyone should step avant-garde IDM to be pretty ridiculous. Docking people points because you find music to be "generic" is ridiculous, this isn't a contest in musical taste. If it was, we'd all lose anyway.

will-i-am · 08-20-2006, 07:16 PM

Woah, 5th place! I really wasn't expecting this (but I was hoping), but thanks for the scores PlatinumHawke and Zounder!

Now I'm happy!

TyTigeriku · 08-20-2006, 07:17 PM

Hm, 21st. Still not last, yay! =D

I kinda expected this to place a bit higher, but hey, I'm happy with the results (not last). =)

Zounder · 08-20-2006, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrxevan

I frankly find the idea that everyone should step avant-garde IDM to be pretty ridiculous. Docking people points because you find music to be "generic" is ridiculous, this isn't a contest in musical taste. If it was, we'd all lose anyway.

Um.

The category is called "creativity".

How else should I grade it besides how creative the choice is? If it's generic, its not creative. Pure and simple.

I do -not- grade by my own taste. As an example, I hated Dancin' in my dreams song wise, but I didnt dock points off for that.

Also, I have no clue what the heck Avant-garde IDM is.

As to jester: Eurobeat/eurodance has electronic instruments, to me that means it's some from of techno music. If the music is pure dance (Do You Know) I say dance. If the music is purely Eurobeat (Dancin' in my dreams) I say Eurobeat. If I'm not sure, I say techno. It does not change my opinion of the file. If it's generic, it's generic, it doesnt matter what type of music I call it.

(lol this is like my tenth edit) jester was that thing about the -1 near my name that you just edited out of your post an insult or a misunderstanding? -_-

lrxevan · 08-20-2006, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zounder

Um.

The category is called "creativity".

How else should I grade it?

Perhaps by grading the creativity of the steps.

In the case of Eurobeat, it is, by definition, generic. Eurobeat is a genre with such specific criteria as to what makes it "eurobeat" that it is impossible to say it's "not" generic.

It's like saying "This rock song is generic because, like every other rock song, it has a bass guitar." I mean, in theory you could live without a bass guitar, and some songs don't have it, but a very high percentage (I would venture to say there are very few that don't have one) do, and you would be hard-pressed to find a rock song without one.

I agree with jesterline; I believe your judging was somewhat flawed in that you picked apart things that are set in stone. That would be like saying "the pope? wearing his pope hat? blasphemy! 4/10!"

And that's somewhat irrelivant as is; if you're going to dock points for using songs in certain genres, it helps if you at least know what they are. Classifying all electronic music as "techno" really exposes your ignorance in that regard.

And yet with all that said, it doesn't really matter as the judging is pretty much set in stone; no one here is going to admit they're wrong, especially if they're being regarded as "an expert."

All I ask is that in the future, you judge what you were brought here to judge: step quality.

jesterline · 08-20-2006, 07:25 PM

The -1 comment was a misunderstanding... I was just kind of confused.

This is my problem though, I made a list of generic songs according to you
All In The Way - GENERIC
Bouncin! - GENERIC
Dancin' In My Dreams - GENERIC
Do You Know (I Go Crazy) - apparently not generic
Fuku Wa Uchi - GENERIC
Gasolina - apparently sometimes generic?
High School Love - GENERIC
Inspiration - GENERIC
Kickstart My Heart - GENERIC as a rock song?
Little Little Princess - unique
Love Is Eternity - GENERIC
Paranoia Sky - GENERIC
Pump Up The Jam - GENERIC
Right Now - apparently sounds just like the DDR version (not really)
Sakura Kaduki - GENERIC and not generic at the same time WHAT
Samba Brazil - unique?
Seasons Of Love - GENERIC
Sphere - a tad GENERIC
This Is Love - GENERIC
Together - GENERIC
Tunak Tunak Tun - creative
Way of Life - unique
Wowowee - apparently the most creative song in here
You Give Love a Bad Name - GENERIC
Nagai Yume - unique'

Please don't take this in a flaming matter, I just find it weird that you think everything is generic. That list is kind of ridiculous. :/

Zounder · 08-20-2006, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrxevan

Perhaps by grading the creativity of the steps.

I made an edit to my post likely as you were writing this to clarify what I meant by "How else should I grade?" And why would I graade the creativity of the steps when the category is the creativity of the song? It seems you are quite confused.

Quote:

In the case of Eurobeat, it is, by definition, generic. Eurobeat is a genre with such specific criteria as to what makes it "eurobeat" that it is impossible to say it's "not" generic.

I ultimately agree with this. Thus, anyone entering a eurobeat song should expect something that isnt a 100% score in creativity.

Quote:

It's like saying "This rock song is generic because, like every other rock song, it has a bass guitar." I mean, in theory you could live without a bass guitar, and some songs don't have it, but a very high percentage (I would venture to say there are very few that don't have one) do, and you would be hard-pressed to find a rock song without one.

Sorry, but this is a really bad analogy. Kickstart my Heart doesn't have any outstanding qualities as a song that says to me "Hey, this is unique." There are other rock songs that do. Same goes for any other genre.

Quote:

I agree with jesterline; I believe your judging was somewhat flawed in that you picked apart things that are set in stone. That would be like saying "the pope? wearing his pope hat? blasphemy! 4/10!"

I have no clue what this means, especially the part in the bolded text.

Quote:

And that's somewhat irrelivant as is; if you're going to dock points for using songs in certain genres, it helps if you at least know what they are. Classifying all electronic music as "techno" really exposes your ignorance in that regard.

Do I really need to quote my previous post?

Quote:

And yet with all that said, it doesn't really matter as the judging is pretty much set in stone; no one here is going to admit they're wrong, especially if they're being regarded as "an expert."

If it all really doesn't mater then why bother posting all of this? Is your goal to discredit me? Is your goal to get attention? And of course I'm not going to admit I'm wrong because I'm not "wrong". It's black and white here. Creativity is the category. A judge should judge the song based on how creative it is. If it's generic its generic, regardless if it's techno or trance or dance or eurobeat or whatever it is. My lack of knowledge of what music falls under what specific type of genre does not matter here. Anyway, The opinion comes in when it comes down to HOW generic/creative the song choice is. THAT is up in the air. But it seems you're trying to tell me 1. How generic a song is should not be accounted for and 2. my opinion is wrong.

Quote:

All I ask is that in the future, you judge what you were brought here to judge: step quality.

Are you blind? The "creativity" aspect we are discussing is under the SONG category, not the STEPS category! Don't get me wrong, creativity is of huge importance in in steps, but the thing you and jester are complaining about is under "song /15".

jesterline · 08-20-2006, 07:45 PM

From reading your judging it really seems to me that you're biased towards Wowowee (which is a good file that SHOULD be in the top 3 for sure, i agree), it seems kind of ridiculous that you gave Inspiration a score 10 points lower than everybody else. It seems like you judged hard on the Inspiration and easy on Wowowee because maybe you wanted it to win?

Zounder · 08-20-2006, 07:52 PM

All In The Way - GENERIC

It is.

Bouncin! - GENERIC

It is.

Dancin' In My Dreams - GENERIC

It is.

Do You Know (I Go Crazy) - apparently not generic

Don't twist my words.
"- Nothing really stands out to me as creative here
+ But it isn't blatantly generic dance"

Fuku Wa Uchi - GENERIC

Don't twist my words.

"Creativity 3/4
+ Unique feel overall
- Synth rhythm sounds a bit generic though"

Gasolina - apparently sometimes generic?

Don't twist my words.
"+ All kinds of rhythms mashed into one song, very unique
- Some of the rhythms are a bit generic (like the last synth rhythm)
+ But overall this has a very creative feel to it"

High School Love - GENERIC

it is.

Inspiration - GENERIC

it -really- is.

Kickstart My Heart - GENERIC as a rock song?

It is.

Little Little Princess - unique

it is. I hated the song but it's pretty unipue.

Love Is Eternity - GENERIC

It is.
Paranoia Sky - GENERIC

Ummmm, countless Paranoia songs in DDR means yes, generic

Pump Up The Jam - GENERIC

It is.

Right Now - apparently sounds just like the DDR version (not really)

Maybe I'm mistaken on this. wouldn't change my score.

Sakura Kaduki - GENERIC and not generic at the same time WHAT

DON'T TWIST MY WORDS.
"Creativity 2/4
+ Has a bit of a unique feel to it
- But it sounds like a generic Sakura-type song"

I probably should have clarified "Sakura-type" better though, in fact, I have no clue what I meant by that. It had a few unique aspects here and there but felt overall generic.

Samba Brazil - unique?

Yes.

Seasons Of Love - GENERIC

DONT TWIST MY WORDS.
"Creativity 3/4
+ From a musical, pretty creative
- This remix has a bit of a generic dance feel to it though
+ Still pretty creative overall"

Sphere - a tad GENERIC

Yep.

This Is Love - GENERIC

Yep.

Together - GENERIC

countelss smile.dk songs in DDR, yep.

Tunak Tunak Tun - creative

Hurt my ears, but yeah, definitely creative.

Way of Life - unique

Yep.

Wowowee - apparently the most creative song in here

Is this such a farfetched opinion?

You Give Love a Bad Name - GENERIC

Yep.

Nagai Yume - unique'

Yep.

Quote:

Please don't take this in a flaming matter, I just find it weird that you think everything is generic. That list is kind of ridiculous. :/

Are you blind as well? I good portion fo those songs are -not- generic, and many of those which you just labeled as "GENERIC" I really didn't find generic overall, but one aspect of it (Gasolina, for example), and the fact that it seems that I found so many of these songs generic is because of you twisting my words.

Oh, and if you don't expect me to think you're flaming, then DON'T TWIST MY WORDS.

Xythar · 08-20-2006, 07:55 PM

Anyway the main thing that matters here is what songs ended up in the top 3, not what order they ended up in. I feel all of the top 3 songs deserved to skip to the final round, and so I don't really have any complaints.

I can mostly say the same for the songs that made it into the challenge round although there were a few songs that got kinda robbed :/