DDR Bracket 01 - Download Link and General Discussion

[Uiru]

I don't want to beat this into the ground (because I'm really good at that and can get carried away sometimes) but the whole point I'm trying to make is that there ARE songs that use dreaded blue arrows on Light; lots of them, and they DO try to force the player to do something other than 4ths- sometimes 16ths. And this was happening when Beginner wasn't even an option; if you couldn't handle the 4, 5 and 6 step Lights of yesteryear, you were out of luck with that song- you had to play something else. A lot of these charts are loaded with 8ths; you think six or seven gallops is going to trip up a Light player more than a constant bombardment of non-4ths?

And while not everything Konami does is a good idea, I am yet being told to pussify my Light steps as Konami has done. Spot the contradiction.
~Uiru

[Juub005]

Okay on another note the results for Bracket 01 are not out yet and that's because of me and my stupid anti-judging schedule. Sorry I'll try my absolute best to get them in by tomorrow (Sunday).

[PlatinumHawke]

1. There's more wrong with your file than just gallops on Basic steps.
2. AM-3P doesn't have gallops. Neither does B2U Orchestral. It has the 4th-16th-8th strings that's not that difficult and it only shows up on a few charts, usually on 5s or 6s on Basic.
3. Even on the harder Basic songs, most charts were not "loaded with 8ths," with the noteable except of Gradiusic Cyber and Believe in Miracles... probably some other 2nd mix song that Konami was still working kinks out of.

[Uiru]

Originally Posted by PlatinumHawke

1. There's more wrong with your file than just gallops on Basic steps.
2. AM-3P doesn't have gallops. Neither does B2U Orchestral. It has the 4th-16th-8th strings that's not that difficult and it only shows up on a few charts, usually on 5s or 6s on Basic.
3. Even on the harder Basic songs, most charts were not "loaded with 8ths," with the noteable except of Gradiusic Cyber and Believe in Miracles... probably some other 2nd mix song that Konami was still working kinks out of.

I was going to let a few more posts build up, but your review is too grievous to ignore.

You're calling me out for using gallops in Standard? Do you actually play DDR? It's this game where you USE YOUR FEET to do things like gallop in Standard, occasionally! I would like to see the checklist you use to determine what goes in what difficulty, because it must be a hilarious work of pure fiction. No wonder nobody actually cares about the Light and Standard charts in these competitions; if the rules on them were any tighter you might as well just have them assigned to you.

The only difficulty level that has any limitation set on it in terms of what can and cannot happen is Beginner. Light, Standard, Heavy and Challenge are bound only by their step ratings, period. We have seen freezes in Beginner, 16ths in Light, and all manner of Heavy-style tomfoolery in Standard. You, being the old mix whore that you are, should know this better than me; why must I lecture you on this? Do you even remember the days of the 5-7-9 charts, or have "StepMania" rules taken over? StepMania rules are fine for Keyboard and ITG, but this is the DDR division. Eden had a 6 step Light chart that probably should have been 7, and that was a big thing, if you'll recall.

After looking at some of the stuff that Light has done in the past, I would rerate the Light steps as 4 and feel that the rating was thoroughly justified. I would then lose even more points for them because of some thoroughly misguided notion that one 16th is going to autofail a Light player. I don't think this competition should even bother with Light and Standard anymore, since the perception of a bunch of Heavy players looking down the ranks at these charts is horribly skewed. The simple fact that a 16th existing sets off all kinds of alarms when absolutely no thought at all is given to how this would actually affect a Light player is evidence of this, and absolutely no thought at all is given to the stepchart in particular that is supposed to be rated, either. I would put money on the fact that they'd jump it and eat the Great/Good, actually- Light players tend not to use speed mods so the fact that the gallop even exists would be less pronounced. I would also put money on the fact that every reviewer/judge in this competition who didn't say otherwise played on at least x2.

I am losing faith in this competition's ability to help me improve. "Conform" seems more the order of the day.
~Uiru

[lrxevan]

Originally Posted by Uiru

I was going to let a few more posts build up, but your review is too grievous to ignore.

You're calling me out for using gallops in Standard? Do you actually play DDR? It's this game where you USE YOUR FEET to do things like gallop in Standard, occasionally! I would like to see the checklist you use to determine what goes in what difficulty, because it must be a hilarious work of pure fiction. No wonder nobody actually cares about the Light and Standard charts in these competitions; if the rules on them were any tighter you might as well just have them assigned to you.

The only difficulty level that has any limitation set on it in terms of what can and cannot happen is Beginner. Light, Standard, Heavy and Challenge are bound only by their step ratings, period. We have seen freezes in Beginner, 16ths in Light, and all manner of Heavy-style tomfoolery in Standard. You, being the old mix whore that you are, should know this better than me; why must I lecture you on this? Do you even remember the days of the 5-7-9 charts, or have "StepMania" rules taken over? StepMania rules are fine for Keyboard and ITG, but this is the DDR division.

After looking at some of the stuff that Light has done in the past, I would rerate the Light steps as 4 and feel that the rating was thoroughly justified. I would then lose even more points for them because of some thoroughly misguided notion that one 16th is going to autofail a Light player. I don't think this competition should even bother with Light and Standard anymore, since the perception of a bunch of Heavy players looking down the ranks at these charts is horribly skewed. The simple fact that a 16th existing sets off all kinds of alarms when absolutely no thought at all is given to how this would actually affect a Light player is evidence of this, and absolutely no thought at all is given to the stepchart in particular that is supposed to be rated, either. I would put money on the fact that they'd jump it and eat the Great/Good, actually- Light players tend not to use speed mods so it'd be less pronounced. I would also put money on the fact that every reviewer/judge in this competition who didn't say otherwise played on at least x2.

I am losing faith in this competition's ability to help me improve. "Conform" seems more the order of the day.
~Uiru

Hi, I completely agree.

Peoples' views on Light and Standard are horribly incorrect these days. Using eighth notes in light even sometimes makes people lower your score by ridiculous amounts even if it's warranted. Countless DDR stepcharts have used eighths (and even sixteenths) in their light charts, and no one even blinks.

It's when we do it that kills people -- but these "rules" people make up for certain charts are artificial at best. What are the "rules" exactly? There are a few 7-foot light charts that are 8-feet on Heavy in DDR, but if I submitted something like that for this tournament, it would be attacked vehemently by people who believe they know the rules but in actuality know very little if anything about the composition of a DDR stepchart.

Not only that, but we tend to misrate files, too. 6-foot files aren't nearly as easy as we tend to rate them, and yes, fives can have eighth-notes in them, even on light. Paranoia Evolution, for instance.

Light, Standard, and Heavy are words created in an attempt to give players of Dance Dance Reovlution titiles some kind of guide as to what is best-suited for them, but they also serve another purpose: that is to give each chart three levels of difficulty.

But we need to be clear on one thing: for every single rule someone comes up with to make a light or standard chart seem "too hard,"there is a stepchart in DDR that can directly contridict said individual. Gallops on Standard? Tsugaru, Hero. Gallops on LIGHT? I'm not sure, but I'm sure if we looked hard enough we'd find something.

Uiru, I'm not at all defending your stepchart, because I happened to find quite a bit wrong with it as well, but you can rest assured that it wasn't perceived rules based on some kind of arbitrary "ruleset" for your light and standard steps.

[jammitch!]

Originally Posted by Uiru

Light, Standard, Heavy and Challenge are bound only by their step ratings, period.

So what's your thought on my 11-foot challenge, if I may ask?

[Uiru]

lrxevan- Good points. It's possible that a gallop in Light has never been done before- I certainly can't think of any examples- but there have been a large number of 'firsts' in this game; what's one more? And I invite people to find all the flaws they like with my submissions, as long as they're legitimate. One day people will learn what a doublestep is, etc.

jammitch!- For a DDR competition, I would have said it was 10+ and left it at that, as that is where the boundary lies. 10+, like 10 before it, is not a rating, it's a symbol- where 10 (usually) just means 'extremely hard', 10+ just means the chart is completely off the, well, chart. There are easier and harder 10+'s, compare PSMo with The Legend of Max, or even PSMh. (I personally would put MaxX Unlimited at 10+ before LoM, but this is not the time for that.)

(For a quick recap on something I've said before, Sakura and bag and such are 'actual' 10's, that flow reasonably from 9's, while Max 300 and the like are far beyond even them- if DDR suddenly expanded its own scale, I would thoroughly expect red boss songs to start at 11 and move up from there. Therefore, 10 is more of a symbol than a rating, and it's why this expansion will likely never happen.)

edit: To clarify, my only issue with the steps is that they were rated 11 and not 10+, and not the fact that the 11 step chart was there in the first place.
~Uiru

[jammitch!]

FYI: You can't rate something as 10+ in SM besides using a theme that caps the foot rating as 10 and flashes on higher than 10, and you still have to rate it an 11.

[Xythar]

I've always understood 11 as meaning flashing 10 (like LoM or PSM in DDR) from a DDR context, and I've rated files as such before. Although, I do have my Stepmania set up so files rated 10 don't flash but files rated 11 and above do (on the default theme, as of course I want different behaviour on the ITG theme where all the difficulties are just displayed and none flash). It's really easy to set up if anyone wants to know how.

[Uiru]

Yeah, I know you can't distinguish 10 and 10+ in SM; I'd have put it at 10 and left a reminder in the readme. I wouldn't have docked points for it either way, though.

Of course, then you get to yell at people who don't read the readme and say it's too hard.
~Uiru

[will-i-am]

Hmmm... nobody is sparking up comments about my reviews. Does that mean they're ok?

[jesterline]

Originally Posted by will-i-am

Hmmm... nobody is sparking up comments about my reviews. Does that mean they're ok?

I really liked your reviews. They were very in depth and everything! Thanks!

[will-i-am]

Cool! Well, I was just wondering anyways. I wanted to know what other people thought about my reviews. It's nice to know that you liked them.

[CronoSquare]

Originally Posted by Xythar

I've always understood 11 as meaning flashing 10 (like LoM or PSM in DDR) from a DDR context, and I've rated files as such before. Although, I do have my Stepmania set up so files rated 10 don't flash but files rated 11 and above do (on the default theme, as of course I want different behaviour on the ITG theme where all the difficulties are just displayed and none flash). It's really easy to set up if anyone wants to know how.

Though technically I would say PSMO is a flashing ten, but more like a 12, at least to me it is. XD (I consider Maxx, LOM and PSM 11s and PSMO a 12, that's just my personal opinion)

Anyway, other than randomly budding in my 2 cents, just wanted to let everyone know there are new videos up, only a few more from bracket 1 left to film, and I just have to let my camera battery charge up here, so I will be back at 'er shortly.

Temp It Up
Go Berserk
Seven
Parasite World
Kegekiha
Domino
Aiin
Rock Steady
Let Me Stay

The rest (including the 2 oni charts) should be up later tonight.

[CronoSquare]

Originally Posted by Dax

Whoops, looks like this was a little bit delayed. ^^;; Better a little late than never, so here's the...

Yes, I am THAT lame.

[edit]

Finished the last of Bracket 1!

Rock Steady - Heavy - Oni
Let Me Stay - Heavy
Hikari - Heavy
Action Radius - Heavy
One Heart - Heavy
Blow Me Away - Heavy