Difference between DDR and ITG Stepcharts

[Uiru]

Originally Posted by Xythar

Although to be honest I think I'd have liked MAX 300 better if it were 150bpm and all 16ths because at least then it wouldn't be all "LOLZ LET'S DOUBLE THE BPM TO MAKE IT HARDURRRRRRRR"

Bullshit; you would then play it on x2. And Max 150 doesn't have the same ring to it. :D

lrxevan- hahahaha. :D

edit: guys I can't find the "no smilies by default" option. Where did it go?
~Uiru

[Xythar]

I'd play it on x3 actually, it's just more of a question of accuracy. And at certain points with higher BPMs, doubling the BPM gives you less flexibility in choosing speed mods. Oh well.

[Aeronautical Vigilante]

Originally Posted by Xythar

It's true that there were a couple of entries in the ITG division last OSC that were basically second DDR entries by people.

That's how ITG is, tho... there are a number of songs in ITG that have no Expert charts and which have relatively easy Hard charts with no mines or hands. In that respect they are the same as if they were in DDR.

The most important differences when you don't do Expert charts are in the length (some songs cut better to two minutes than 1:30), and ITG being a little more beat-centric than DDR. Oh, and mines and freeze rolls if you want to be evil.

And lrxevan, do not make stupid-ass trolls about ITG. I'm still pissed at you for the CDTitle remarks and "You're repressing me!" shit. It's not funny, I'm getting complaints from people, and if you keep it up I'm just going to find all your entries and DQ them.

And everyone else... Okay, I laughed at a couple of the disses thrown at him, but the "Men" comment, while paired with the best smiley usage ever, was a little low.

Actually, Max150 doesn't sound too bad, except for the fact that a metric asston of DDR songs are 150BPM so it's not all dramatic.

The TLDR version: Stop the trolling shit lrxevan, and ps

[jammitch!]

Originally Posted by NekoIncardine

Okay, I laughed at a couple of the disses thrown at him, but the "Men" comment, while paired with the best smiley usage ever, was a little low.

It was a clean hit - it's not exactly false.

[BLueSS]

lrxevan, please try to stop any attitude that might be saying you're the man, or that what you say is always right, or that you know everything with simfile making since you won previously.

Neko, cool down. Take some Alaskan chill-pills or something.


As a warning to anyone who might be trying to change the way things happen around here: don't try to subvert OSC staff. We're very reasonable people, and like input and suggestions, just do it with tact and respect. If you don't we will come after you.

lrxevan's ITG post would only be a troll if he had posted that anytime ITG steps were brought up, or something similar.

[jesterline]

Originally Posted by NekoIncardine

And lrxevan, do not make stupid-ass trolls about ITG. I'm still pissed at you for the CDTitle remarks and "You're repressing me!" shit. It's not funny, I'm getting complaints from people, and if you keep it up I'm just going to find all your entries and DQ them.

Uh, it obviously wasn't a "troll." By the way, learn to use the word troll correctly because honestly, that's quite an awkward sentence. You're being quite immature about this. It seems like it's a personal hatred of him. Obviously, it was a joke. Everybody else found his post funny.

Just because you are one of the people in charge of this contest doesn't mean that you can act like such a fucking dick.

[lrxevan]

Originally Posted by BLueSS

lrxevan, please try to stop any attitude that might be saying you're the man, or that what you say is always right, or that you know everything with simfile making since you won previously.

Neko, cool down. Take some Alaskan chill-pills or something.


As a warning to anyone who might be trying to change the way things happen around here: don't try to subvert OSC staff. We're very reasonable people, and like input and suggestions, just do it with tact and respect. If you don't we will come after you.

lrxevan's ITG post would only be a troll if he had posted that anytime ITG steps were brought up, or something similar.

It's absurd. Anything I say in an even somewhat cynical tone is considered to be a troll post/upsetting/rude. The ITG steps post was meant to be funny. A lot of people here found it funny.

And despite my "confidence" on the forums I'm actually usually very concerned about the quality of the things I put out. I usually think that everything I do sucks, and to be honest, I have to be told by Ebisumaru like a dozen times something is fine before I release it.

Oh, and Neko, I have to admit, the "all of your entries" thing was placed casually enough in the sentence that it was actually very funny, kudos to you, gjgjgjgjg

Okay, I laughed at a couple of the disses thrown at him, but the "Men" comment, while paired with the best smiley usage ever, was a little low.

You doing anything this saturday night, big boy?

No, really, I'm homosexual. It's not a big secret.

and ITG being a little more beat-centric than DDR.

Pardon? I'm not sure I understand this, could you please explain?

[#Infinity]

From my perspective, the major differences between DDR and ITG stepcharts include:

1) Most DDR stepcharts lack a Challenge stepchart, while most ITG songs have a Challenge (aka, Expert) stepchart.

2) DDR's stepcharts are all about creativity and having fun, while ITG's stepcharts are all about a great challenge (you can tell they put very little thought into the Novice to Hard stepcharts, but lots of thinking into the Expert steps).

3) DDR 10's almost always scroll up extremely fast (except bag, MAD BLAST, Giudecca, and G2). Many ITG 10's are regular bpm, but full of sixteenths.

4) ITG's innovations of hands, mines, and rolls.

[lrxevan]

Originally Posted by #Infinity

2) DDR's stepcharts are all about creativity and having fun, while ITG's stepcharts are all about a great challenge (you can tell they put very little thought into the Novice to Hard stepcharts, but lots of thinking into the Expert steps).

The rhythms in ITG's charts (no matter how wrong they usually are.. Utopia anyone?) usually do have a lot of thought put into them, I'll give you that. I would argue that the patterns in ITG's expert charts are usually ridiculously repetetive. 90% of the time in ITG 1 and 2 you are facing left.

Triples were used a few times in DDR Solo (plus extensively in Pump it Up, alongw with handplants), and mines were just an idea borrowed from Stepmania and implimented extremely poorly. If you're not going to hit them anyway, why are they there? A jump on up and down and a mine on left? Yeah, I'm going to reach down and hit that mine!

And then there's mine fields, which were a bad idea that was reduced to disaster in ITG2. In Disconnected Mobius, a 9 from ITG1, the mine field works because you can practially read a book while stepping it and not hit them because they're so easy to avoid. In ITG2, however, avoiding those mines was virtually impossible, meaning Disconnected Mobius became more difficult to play. A song with an intended difficulty level is changed because of a huge gimmick placed in the song and a change in base mehanics? There are too many inconsistances in development in the ITG games.

I don't know, I just don't think ITG was very innovative at all. Sixteenth notes have existed long before dancing games.

[Xythar]

Originally Posted by lrxevan

You doing anything this saturday night, big boy?

No, really, I'm homosexual. It's not a big secret.

Damn, the one time I do get an opportunity for a good burn, and this happens.

I guess it's too late to go back and edit the post to "Women"?

Anyway, with ITG, I think the point of the jumps with an extra mine thrown in is that the mines make them harder to read. I know they do for me. I was trying a bunch of entries from OSC5's ITG division, and while I managed to pass stuff like Grip challenge on keyboard I couldn't pass Milkshake challenge because the minespam just made it too hard for me to read. I think in that respect they work pretty well.

I don't get the idea of freeze rolls, tho. Why not just put down a bunch of the same arrow in a row? It's like they needed to come up with one more unique arrow type, regardless of how redundant it happened to be.

[sanchny]

Originally Posted by lrxevan

mines were just an idea borrowed from Stepmania and implimented extremely poorly.

Some of the main people are in both teams, so it's not exactly borrowed. I thought the whole point of implementing it in SM was because it was in ITG.

Originally Posted by lrxevan

If you're not going to hit them anyway, why are they there? A jump on up and down and a mine on left? Yeah, I'm going to reach down and hit that mine!

It's partly what Xythar said. The mines make it harder to read the chart, and it's extra punishment for wrong placement of an otherwise idle foot.
There are times when it's fun and appropriate, and there are times when it's the stupidest fucking thing ever. It's hard to explain, just like I'd have a hard time explaining most other concepts of what makes arrow smashing fun.

[Aeronautical Vigilante]

Originally Posted by sanchny

Some of the main people are in both teams, so it's not exactly borrowed. I thought the whole point of implementing it in SM was because it was in ITG.

ITG is based off of the Stepmania engine; mines were implemented in SM, along with the rediculous mod count, specifically for ITG.

For the ITG area (only ITG and Keyboard should have mines ever, and Keyboard generally should be very sparing of it if you use it at all), Mines do factor into your score; many Expert charts wisely refuse to use them, many others make judicious use of them or have them during short downtimes in the song, and others require all new motions to deal with them (Disconnected Mobius Expert is an extreme case). I've heard that holes in minefields imply 'shadow steps' at some points to help you out.

[sanchny]

Originally Posted by NekoIncardine

ITG is based off of the Stepmania engine; mines were implemented in SM, along with the rediculous mod count, specifically for ITG.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Change the last part of what I said to read "because it was going to be in ITG."

[Juub005]

Basically what I see as the main differences between DDR and ITG outside of the more evident ones on the Challenge/Expert difficulty:

1. ITG double tends to be a LOT more experimental than DDR double, ignoring some parts of DDR double that are just a mess (R&P on Maniac difficulty for example--not an 8 footer and not fun)
2. I don't know if this is true, but if a chart on ITG is rated x feet, it seems to me that you can pick 4 measures at random and then immediately be able to tell that it's x feet. Is this true? What I'm saying is that in ITG there's no like 4-measure section that's so difficult it pushes the difficulty of the whole chart up a foot or two, unlike Electro Tuned where the beginning essentially makes it 9 feet. I really don't know if this is true now so ignore it right now.
3. ITG tends to use longer song cuts, and you can definitely tell that you were playing for longer than you would have been if you were playing on DDR. An ITG chart tends to feel longer.
4. The only ITG I've played is ITG1 PS2, and I believe the default setting is Note, or whatever it's called where the arrows are colored differently to denote whether they're 8ths or 16ths or 32nds and so on. If I'm correct that the default setting is Note, then it's safe to assume that ITG charts are more designed expecting that the player will be more likely to pick out the trickier 16th etcetera patterns with the colors zooming up the screen. On DDR (especially before 3rd Mix) it's more likely that a 16th that would be easy for your eyes to pick out on ITG will trip you up. Good examples are Super Star -from nonstop megamix- Oni which has a tricky 16th concealed by a freeze and basically the whole charts of rain of sorrow and I feel...
5. ugh my mom and sister won't SHUT UP
6. I'll continue this list tomorrow maybe

[alphabet55]

Originally Posted by Juub005

2. I don't know if this is true, but if a chart on ITG is rated x feet, it seems to me that you can pick 4 measures at random and then immediately be able to tell that it's x feet. Is this true? What I'm saying is that in ITG there's no like 4-measure section that's so difficult it pushes the difficulty of the whole chart up a foot or two, unlike Electro Tuned where the beginning essentially makes it 9 feet. I really don't know if this is true now so ignore it right now.

That would be so cool if that was true, but I don't think it is. I know of parts parts in several challenge songs where you are doing nothing but standing still (on a freeze, for example).

I may be wrong though, or maybe those parts don't count in the general rule?