A few things about song titles/cdtitles

[lrxevan]

A small note before you read: I am not, nor will I likely be, OSC staff. This is just my opinion, and as such is not likely very valuable by itself. However, I have been active in the simfile community for a very long time in various forms, and won last year's OSC contest (very unexcpectedly, too. Thanks for your votes, guys!). If anything, these are just the ramblings of someone who knows the scene and knows the process very well. The formula I use and rules I state here may not be for everyone, but they have won contests before and I hope will continue to.

1.) Your edit is not part of the song name. If a song is called "My Name is Joe," your cut/edit is not called "My Name is Joe(SSJ4Ted Edit)." It's still called "My Name is Joe."

2.) If you step Traces, from IIDX IIDX, it is not Traces (From IIDX). It is called "Traces." This applies in a very general sense.

3.) If a song was used and cut in a different game, the game's name is not in the title unless it was specifically edited for that game.

For instance, I have a stepfile of "Eat You Up (Phat K Mix)" that uses a cut from DanceManiaX. The song is still not called "Eat You Up (Phat K Mix) (From DanceManiaX)," but "Eat You Up (Phat K Mix)."

4.) If your song is called "My Name is Joe" and you cut it for OSC5, your song is not called "My Name is Joe (For OSC5)." It is still called "My Name is Joe."

5.) Speeding up a song by 20 BPM doesn't make it a speed mix. Stop labeling it as such, please.

In general, if something is not part of the song name, please do not put it in the #Title or #Subtitle tags. It destroys the professionalism of your file immediately and leaves a poor first impression/taste, even moreso than samplestarts, graphics, or flashy unimportant colors on the song title.

Nothing regarding the cut or editor should ever make its way into your tags. All of that should be in the readme. This applies to CDTitles as well. The #cdtitle tag is for a graphic representing the cd, album, record company, et. al that your song came from. If it came from a megamix or is part of a "group" (Dancemania [fan-made is okay, too], or Hello Projects respectively), it is also acceptable to use that cdtitle graphic to represent this megamix or group.

It is not okay to use the cdtitle as a place to advertise your simfile site, alias, or life goals and dreams, as much as we care about those (really, we do). All of that information is and should be left to your readme file.

Thanks. I'm really sick of seeing all of this. Bad graphics, samplestarts, and syncing don't really upset me in terms of quality anymore. Really, graphics are of a minimal concern and if your graphics suck, hey, that's okay. Not everyone is amazing at Photoshop or has little enough of a life to sit and learn it, and that's fine.

What is terrible is people who are incapable of giving credit where credit is due or taking credit for songs that aren't theirs because they believe that an edit constitutes some kind of ownership over said song. Name your songs correctly, spell them correctly, and stop pretending that the song comes from an album called "BOB ORIGINAL SIMFILES" and, really, you've gained respect from a large portion of the simfile community before we even play your file.

Good luck and best wishes.

[recessionatalus]

hey everyone

read that post above this one again

and again

and again

and if you have any questions

return to the top of this post for further instructions

[Xythar]

I know.

However, I still maintain that my (for OSC4) on Mei was reasonable, since the song played differently. If the first half was 200 bpm like in IIDX I'd have left that off, but I felt the feel was sufficiently different to warrant that.

On a similar note, all the songs in the first VJAMix have their original titles, except Beyond the Earth which is Beyond the Earth (for VJAMix). This is because I used a different cut than the IIDX/Pop'n version, which uses different material. The cut was made specifically for VJAMix and included material not present in the usual cut of the song, therefore I felt the subtitle was again warranted. In this case I am going by examples such as "L'amour et la liberte (DDR version)" where the song was rearranged.

Otherwise, I agree. I've been using the CD title as such since I started, other than (again) in VJAMix, where if we didn't use per-author ones all the files would just say "Beatmania IIDX". To be honest, I don't think step authors necessarily get enough credit in the current conventions, but that's what I go by for competitions since it's what people expect.

Are ITG entries meant to have CD titles?

[lrxevan]

Originally Posted by Xythar

I know.

However, I still maintain that my (for OSC4) on Mei was reasonable, since the song played differently. If the first half was 200 bpm like in IIDX I'd have left that off, but I felt the feel was sufficiently different to warrant that.

On a similar note, all the songs in the first VJAMix have their original titles, except Beyond the Earth which is Beyond the Earth (for VJAMix). This is because I used a different cut than the IIDX/Pop'n version, which uses different material. The cut was made specifically for VJAMix and included material not present in the usual cut of the song, therefore I felt the subtitle was again warranted. In this case I am going by examples such as "L'amour et la liberte (DDR version)" where the song was rearranged.

Otherwise, I agree. I've been using the CD title as such since I started, other than (again) in VJAMix, where if we didn't use per-author ones all the files would just say "Beatmania IIDX". To be honest, I don't think step authors necessarily get enough credit in the current conventions, but that's what I go by for competitions since it's what people expect.

Are ITG entries meant to have CD titles?

I would argue that in both of the first two examples you gave your (for) tags are still somewhat inappropriate because a seperate cut doesn't make it a seperate song. It's still called "Mei," and still "Beyond the Earth," and not "Mei (for OSC4)."

It's all about first impressions.

In the case of ITG, if I were to make a file for it (god forbid) I would probably just make a 1x1 transparent png file. ITG doesn't have cdtitles and isn't really meant to.

[PkerUNO]

Agree with everything except CDTitle. Not everyone knows exactly what to put for the CDTitle, and as long as all the other credits are in place (in the readme too), I don't see what's wrong with putting your name for it.

[Xythar]

Originally Posted by lrxevan

I would argue that in both of the first two examples you gave your (for) tags are still somewhat inappropriate because a seperate cut doesn't make it a seperate song. It's still called "Mei," and still "Beyond the Earth," and not "Mei (for OSC4)."

It's all about first impressions.

Do you also disagree with DDR Extreme doing it, then? V (for extreme), for instance.

My main pet peeve as far as professionalism goes is more when people put the wrong song name or artist, or leave the song artist out of their banner or title out of their BG. I'm not too fussed about CD titles in general, but I can see where you're coming from about them.

And yeah, cd titles don't show up in the ITG theme for Stepmania, but the ITG entries in OSC4 had them anyway so I'm not sure. I may throw in one anyway for the people who just use the default theme, as for the ITG theme users it won't matter either way. I will murder anyone who uses the default theme and complains the text in my banner is offcentre however >_>

[lrxevan]

Originally Posted by PkerUNO

Agree with everything except CDTitle. Not everyone knows exactly what to put for the CDTitle, and as long as all the other credits are in place (in the readme too), I don't see what's wrong with putting your name for it.

Because your name isn't the cdtitle.

It isn't hard to find a CD that your song appeared on. Usually a google search will warrant some kind of result. The only case I can see you absolutely not being able to find the CD Title is if you found your song on Kazaa or something, and that's just a disaster waiting to happen anyway.

Extasy from TM6 (lol, extasy)
That song that someone thought was from the Matrix in TM5.

If you can't find the album, you're doing something wrong. There are numerous resources on the internet that can assist with this process.

www.google.com
www.discogs.com
www.gemm.com can help sometimes, too.

[recessionatalus]

V for Extreme is arranged differently on DDR than it is in IIDX, just like Frozen Ray. Like, if you took Nemesis and re-arranged it so that it played the second half first, cut out part of the beginning, then played the middle, I guess that could warrant a (for XXXX) subtitle

[lrxevan]

Originally Posted by ranatalus

V for Extreme is arranged differently on DDR than it is in IIDX, just like Frozen Ray. Like, if you took Nemesis and re-arranged it so that it played the second half first, cut out part of the beginning, then played the middle, I guess that could warrant a (for XXXX) subtitle

This is correct. The (For Extreme) versions of DDR songs are arranged differently by the original artists of said songs and are thus versions created specifically "For Extreme."

I should mention that if someone who is not the original artist edits it in the way ranatalus describes, it is still not a new version of the song, but an edit. Edits have no place in song tags.

[PkerUNO]

Fine, you find the album. What do you use as a CDTitle? The band's logo? The label's logo? The CD cover? What if you can't find any of these? Does the CD's label need to be advertised? Does the artist's name need to be repeated again? Who cares about the album's art?

I just think that the CDTitle means many things to different people, so either you don't regulate it or set it to something everyone agrees on.

[lrxevan]

Originally Posted by PkerUNO

Fine, you find the album. What do you use as a CDTitle? The band's logo? The label's logo? The CD cover? What if you can't find any of these? Does the CD's label need to be advertised? Does the artist's name need to be repeated again? Who cares about the album's art?

I just think that the CDTitle means many things to different people, so either you don't regulate it or set it to something everyone agrees on.

Well, to me, the cdtitle means the title of the CD.

And yes, you would use the CD logo/cover. Some people will just shrink the CD Cover and use that. Others create custom graphics based on the CD Cover, and others with less time just create a transparent PNG with plain text that says the name of the CD.

Any of these methods are fine, really.

[Zounder]

I wouldn't say having a personal cdtitle is an infringment of the song/artist like the changing of the song's name.

But I agree with everything else.

[jammitch!]

The use of a "CD title" as a step artist's identifying tag is a well-accepted phenomenon, and is entirely reasonable. Just 'cause the tag is #CDTITLE and it was originally used to represent song origin (most DDR "CD titles" are game series titles, with only the Dancemania licenses being the exception) doesn't mean the sim community can't use it in some other, generally standardized, way.

Besides, I'm entering two OC remixes and one song that's an ex-DanceTraX original. Where am I getting CD titles for those?

And two of my songs are "arranged" by a below definition because the cut is not just one continuous block in the original song but rather bits and pieces from the song chosen to represent the overall feel and variety of the song while maintaining a progression and smoothness that passes for the original song. I'm not going to label them anything, although I was going to note that the version of LIGHT MOTION I was going to do was extended from the original (which is significantly rarer than cutting, so maybe it warrants it somehow?).

If SM adds a #AUTHORTITLE then we can render this whole discussion mostly moot.

I still want a #GENRE tag (for information, not for sorting).

[jesterline]

Some really good points here! From now on I'm going to use the real cd as the cd title. The rest.... I didn't do.

[Aeronautical Vigilante]

Originally Posted by lrxevan

Nothing regarding the cut or editor should ever make its way into your tags. All of that should be in the readme. This applies to CDTitles as well. The #cdtitle tag is for a graphic representing the cd, album, record company, et. al that your song came from. If it came from a megamix or is part of a "group" (Dancemania [fan-made is okay, too], or Hello Projects respectively), it is also acceptable to use that cdtitle graphic to represent this megamix or group.

It is not okay to use the cdtitle as a place to advertise your simfile site, alias, or life goals and dreams, as much as we care about those (really, we do). All of that information is and should be left to your readme file.

As head judge and the guy who officially decides these things, I do not give a damn about most every other point you made, professional or not, and this one is officially, flat out, said like Lex Luthor WROOOOOOOOOOOONG.

If they wish to use author labels for the CD Title, it is their right and perogative to do so, and I strongly encourage it. Names mean things in this community whether you'd like to admit it or not, and if they want to show their name more clearly to interest players, they should do so.