So, uh, next OSC

[cpubasic13]

You know, if you don't like the elements of a file because of certain aspects, why not... uh, you know, rate the simfile by what it is? You have to remember that you are judging simfiles by how they are, not by what you believe is awesome or not. If a song has hands, do they fit? If so, don't rate it lower because it has hands and you hate them! Same with mines, and same with difficulty.

Open pad seems fine. If I don't like a file for certain aspects, its because they don't fit, not because I hate those techniques.

With DDR, most files will be "restricted" with difficulties of 10 or less. With ITG, a Challenge category will be expected to come with the sim. An open pad category eliminates these barriers. Say, for example, you had a DDR-esque pad file and wanted to add hands somewhere that would fit well? You couldn't put it in the DDR category for it has ITG elements yet you can't have it in the ITG division as its not truly an ITG file.

And anyone thinking a pad file needs to have a "baseline" needs to rethink this. If PIU is introduced there is no way in hell you are going to be able to find a baseline PIU song to make your ratings by as the steps differ greatly between song to song. Its like using Chimera as a base to judge how the steps of What's Going On works.

[#Infinity]

I do think it works better to arrange the simfiles based on their theme. Just as Crono stated in the DDRExtreme.co.uk boards, an ITG player's perspective will definitely be significantly different from a DDR player's perspective. For this reason, I had trouble rating Namida Girl during OSC BoNG due to its overall differences compared to its competition. I think the contest would be a lot more fair for everyone with individual brackets, and I most certainly wouldn't want to see a DDR simfilist judge an ITG simfile and vice versa. Besides, it's always quite nice to enter another pad simfile into an OSC. It means there will be a lot more for the community to enjoy. DDRExtreme.co.uk does this same type of idea, anyway.

[zeh]

Originally Posted by Valex

I don't think anyone would participate except for like 2 people

Who would the second contestant be?

[#Infinity]

Originally Posted by zeh

Who would the second contestant be?

Jezendar? From what I remember, I think he plays PIU.

I should of addressed the following issue sooner, but,

Originally Posted by cpubasic13

With ITG, a Challenge category will be expected to come with the sim.

Not true. There have really been quite a few solid ITG simfiles that lacked a Challenge stepchart. Have You Ever Been Mellow just barely missed the finals, and many people still enjoyed songs like Mellow and Habanera 1 on ITG even when they didn't have Expert steps. If you apply any ITG elements into the simfile, it should be completely welcome in the ITG bracket. And speaking of which, the ITG bracket itself offers enough freedom for anyone to experiment with that we don't need just one merged pad division.

[Juub005]

Originally Posted by cpubasic13

You know, if you don't like the elements of a file because of certain aspects, why not... uh, you know, rate the simfile by what it is? You have to remember that you are judging simfiles by how they are, not by what you believe is awesome or not. If a song has hands, do they fit? If so, don't rate it lower because it has hands and you hate them! Same with mines, and same with difficulty.

Open pad seems fine. If I don't like a file for certain aspects, its because they don't fit, not because I hate those techniques.

With DDR, most files will be "restricted" with difficulties of 10 or less. With ITG, a Challenge category will be expected to come with the sim. An open pad category eliminates these barriers. Say, for example, you had a DDR-esque pad file and wanted to add hands somewhere that would fit well? You couldn't put it in the DDR category for it has ITG elements yet you can't have it in the ITG division as its not truly an ITG file.

And anyone thinking a pad file needs to have a "baseline" needs to rethink this. If PIU is introduced there is no way in hell you are going to be able to find a baseline PIU song to make your ratings by as the steps differ greatly between song to song. Its like using Chimera as a base to judge how the steps of What's Going On works.

I don't see why anyone should expect a challenge difficulty in an ITG file, seeing as how there are plenty of songs in ITG that don't have challenge charts.

And your problem with "rating the simfile by what it is" is that I honestly am not going to care much if a file claims to be "ITG-style": if I don't like it, I don't like it, and some people (like me) just don't like ITG, just like some people just don't like DDR. If there happen to be more people who like one game than the other (and as far as OSC goes, it's always been DDR), then that's going to cause a problem.

Oh and please don't make extras more important than the core elements of the file this time.

[Aeronautical Vigilante]

Originally Posted by Juub005

I don't see why anyone should expect a challenge difficulty in an ITG file, seeing as how there are plenty of songs in ITG that don't have challenge charts.

And your problem with "rating the simfile by what it is" is that I honestly am not going to care much if a file claims to be "ITG-style": if I don't like it, I don't like it, and some people (like me) just don't like ITG, just like some people just don't like DDR. If there happen to be more people who like one game than the other (and as far as OSC goes, it's always been DDR), then that's going to cause a problem.

Oh and please don't make extras more important than the core elements of the file this time.

I see there's major support for keeping brackets separate, though I'm still not entirely convinced that it's the best idea given my desire to get more mix-ups.

The accusation that extras mattered more than the file's core elements, to me, is questionable, though the balance will probably be turned somewhat towards the main file elements compared to BoNG, and it will be easier for extras to hurt your score this time.

[Sakura Guy]

I am unique. I can appreciate ITG and DDR. I can appreciate a solid ITG file and a solid DDR file. However, i think the groups should be separated due to the fact that it is hard to compare an ITG file to a DDR file due to the fact that they each have different qualities that make them enjoyable

[#Infinity]

Originally Posted by NekoIncardine

I see there's major support for keeping brackets separate, though I'm still not entirely convinced that it's the best idea given my desire to get more mix-ups.

As I stated before, the ITG bracket will offer plenty of room for experimentation. While most players view ITG as a step up from DDR in complexity and difficulty, it's absolutely no problem to edge your simfile a little more towards DDR in the ITG bracket. Have You Ever Been Mellow was more simplistic and didn't even have an Expert chart, but it still did quite well in its bracket and nearly made it to the finals. ITG is not just about the 10+ difficulty stepcharts with loads of mines and runs, but also the easier, yet still unique songs. Its freedom is virtually unlimited, so long as you aren't creating the most devastatingly brutal keyboard chart ever (even most keyboard charts have been passed and scored well on before). Easier charts (Expert 9's) will simplify the dancing process while still being creative, whereas harder ones (10's+) will truly give the player a chance to explore all sorts of unique and challenging steps.

With this in mind, it might make more sense to use one big open pad division anyway, considering the diversity of themes allowed by ITG. However, it has still been previously stated that the perspectives between a DDR simfilist and an ITG one differ immensely. While one may experiment with many different possibilities for an ITG simfile, problems arise when the steps are too simplistic and just not that interesting to play (in the case of Have You Ever Been Mellow, that simfile was criticized to be too DDR-ish by some, but its steps were at least energetic and upbeat, rated a 9 after all). Likewise, DDR players often don't care much for the harder patterns from ITG, and prefer their simfile to be more straightforward and pleasing.

In summary, DDR and ITG are still very separate from each other and probably wouldn't work together. If we did so, comparing the advantages and disadvantages between, say, a DDR 7 and ITG 12 would be far too radical and different. However, those who would prefer an "open pad" theme should get just what they want by particularly entering the ITG bracket (or DDR if they're aiming for a more simplistic approach). We should satisfy everyone in their assumed environment, and I believe maintaining the divisions is the only way we can.

[Sakura Guy]

Oh yes #Infinty's post reminded me. Please no "let's write an essay" bonus rounds

[#Infinity]

Originally Posted by Sakura Guy

Oh yes #Infinty's post reminded me. Please no "let's write an essay" bonus rounds

On that note, I previously suggested the wildcard round to allow participants to re-step a simfile that didn't originally pass (of any bracket; someone may re-step an ITG simfile as a DDR one). This task probably sounds sort of easy (aside from possibly unpleasant song selection limitations; re-stepping Tunak Tunak Tun for example), but I don't really want to go with creating a doubles stepchart, since that gives the unfair advantage to those who already have experience with such obstacles like Wellian and Dark Luke for instance. And let's not forget how pointless 6-panel keyboard was (doubles certainly doesn't help the matters either)...

[Valex]

Solo was a great idea, I really wished I made it, it's better than any other ideas personally (except for yours but it just seems sort of standard)

[will-i-am]

Originally Posted by Sakura Guy

Please no "let's write an essay" bonus rounds

Not if I'm the only one to enter an "essay" again! FREE PASS TO THE FINALS!!!

[Valex]

Jesterline wrote an essay, it brought tears to my eyes from its sheer beauty

[Aeronautical Vigilante]

Yeah, the essay thing is uh not happening. That was specific to BoNG as a time-saving measure. I do sort of wish I could have other ways to do the Wildcard, though, like say using SMO for score challenges on the OSC NEO set. (i.e. you have to PASS what you make!) or something.

Originally Posted by Azure Haights

Curse you. :<

[#Infinity]

I firmly believe the wildcard round should have to do something with step designing at all costs. One of the major reasons Zounder completely bashed the idea of writing essays was because talent in writing has nothing to do with talent in simfile designing. Likewise, just because someone can create good steps does not mean they will be able to pass it with a very high score. If I were participating in the ITG bracket and my file ranked 4th out of 26 entries while an entry by Dukamok ended up in 12th, Duk would still end up winning just because of his great talent in the game itself (the best I've ever mustered was a tri-star on Temple of Boom Expert).