What do you want to see in OSC 6?

#Infinity · 10-06-2006, 09:12 PM

So apparently, OSC 5 was quite a blast, but what could've been better? Post here what you want to see different in OSC 6. I believe this thread was supposed to be made as soon as the final results came in, but it hasn't been yet, so I'm stepping in front to post it, also because I'm intrigued to discuss OSC as much as possible to keep busy while awaiting the ignition of OSC 6 reservations.

My wants include:

- 2 ITG brackets (hopefully enough people will enter it that this is a possibility)
- ITG songs that actually scream "ITG", not a bunch of J-Pop like Namida Girl and Be Princess, or especially Bemani crossovers such as Gradation and Speedy Cat. Multiball and A Voice Spoke To Me were the only songs done by actual ITG artists, and even those weren't the best in their division.
- Way more keyboard simfiles; around 30, not 10
- Suggestion for Challenge Round: Re-step one of the songs that did not make the Challenge Round

Patashu · 10-06-2006, 09:39 PM

I'd say removing the requirement that KB sims must have 2 charts. Plenty of awesome kb sims only have one.

Xythar · 10-07-2006, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #Infinity

- ITG songs that actually scream "ITG", not a bunch of J-Pop like Namida Girl and Be Princess, or especially Bemani crossovers such as Gradation and Speedy Cat.

Personally I feel the steps are more important than the song. Having some ITG-type songs is nice but variety is nice also and saying that you only want to play songs by existing ITG artists is stupid. Someone only becomes an "ITG artist" because the ITG team decides to use them on ITG, it's not like they follow the rules you've set. If a song has good, ITG style steps in the ITG division I don't care in the slightest who made it. ITG2 includes songs that were in DDR, do those not meet with your approval either or is it OK because the ITG guys did it?

(Also Be Princess is not exactly j-pop by any stretch of the imagination)

**jammitch!** · 10-07-2006, 06:47 AM

> Spin keyboard off to a separate tournament. It doesn't fit.

> Kill off the divisions. This contest, as it is, promotes mimickry by pigeonholing you into two fairly rigid styles of stepmaking. It's an improvement over before, where there was one fairly rigid style of stepmaking that everyone held up as the example, but now that we have two examples of different styles we can break out of those shackles and stop limiting ourselves. I'd much rather it promote fun and innovation (as much as you can innovate on four panels - and it is possible). If I wanted to play DDR and ITG as-is, they're already there.

> Certainly the song thing is a load of crap, as far as I'm concerned. I want to see interesting choices, not Bloodrush part 2 (lol personal). I won OSC3 with Bad Religion and it'd be nice to think I could do it again someday. As above, if that's what I wanted, it's already out there.

> Less points given for following the rules. You shouldn't get any points for following the rules - you should lose points for not following the rules.

> Less worrying about it until next year. For some of us this isn't a full-time hobby anymore. But if you must, here's a few ideas for mini-OSCs to tide us over:
> > Mashup theme. I'm sure this would be the worst idea ever and I totally want to see it happen.
> > Neon FM stepwriting challenge. I think this would be interesting, and put everyone on quite a level playing field.
> > Eliminator tournament. You don't vote for your favorite, you vote for your least favorite, and the files with the most votes are gone. Problem with this is it may really bruise some egos.

> Less

, more

TakeWalker · 10-07-2006, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jammitch!

> Kill off the divisions. This contest, as it is, promotes mimickry by pigeonholing you into two fairly rigid styles of stepmaking. It's an improvement over before, where there was one fairly rigid style of stepmaking that everyone held up as the example, but now that we have two examples of different styles we can break out of those shackles and stop limiting ourselves. I'd much rather it promote fun and innovation (as much as you can innovate on four panels - and it is possible). If I wanted to play DDR and ITG as-is, they're already there.

What about those of us who only create simfiles using one method? A combinative methodology would leave us rotting at the bottom of the heap for being "unoriginal".

And I still think ITG steps are total crap.

As for what I want, I just want another contest. If I keep my expectations low, then I can be pleasantly surprised.

**jammitch!** · 10-07-2006, 10:35 AM

I certainly didn't say to combine the two. That wouldn't be any better or any more free than what we have now.

In an open tournament you're free to enter DDR-style, ITG-style, Pump-style, blended or whatever else you feel like, and all will be judged equally on merit. I just want to see something a little more interesting than a cookie-cutter eurodance 7 do well.

#Infinity · 10-07-2006, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jammitch!

Kill off the divisions. This contest, as it is, promotes mimickry by pigeonholing you into two fairly rigid styles of stepmaking. It's an improvement over before, where there was one fairly rigid style of stepmaking that everyone held up as the example, but now that we have two examples of different styles we can break out of those shackles and stop limiting ourselves. I'd much rather it promote fun and innovation (as much as you can innovate on four panels - and it is possible). If I wanted to play DDR and ITG as-is, they're already there.

I'm sorry to say that I'd want anything different but that. DDR, ITG, and KB had seperate winners in OSC 5, anyway, so why only use DDR when, as will-i-am said, certain people show their strengths in either ITG (Hamm) or KB (Eggman)? This also prevents us from submitting multiple simfiles to the tournament, which is one thing that I simply adored.

And regarding your last post, remember the OSC 4 final results? Only the DDR simfiles got a handful of votes, mainly because people generally seem to be more entrhalled by DDR than ITG. The KB bracket especially didn't stand a chance. How unfair to those who only excel at making ITG or KB simfiles. I'm glad they changed this for OSC 5.

discovolante · 10-07-2006, 02:16 PM

The only problem I have with the dissolution of divisions is that there are a lot of purists here. You'll have ITG fans giving solid DDR-styled charts lower grades and vice-versa (just look at TakeWalker's wonderfully open-minded "ITG charts are crap" comment). I think the second everyone starts developing their own style and everyone starts being open to new things we can have a divisionless competition.

Mostly I just want to see a totally fucking ridiculous challenge round. Jammitch's NeonFM idea comes close to that.

jesterline · 10-07-2006, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jammitch!

I just want to see something a little more interesting than a cookie-cutter eurodance 7 do well.

ooh a direct attack on me AWESOME

because overly hard speedcore is just totally underdone! ROLLEYES ROLLEYES ROLLEYES

Juub005 · 10-07-2006, 02:25 PM

Hey, I also think ITG-style charts are not worth my time but I don't say too much about it. That's why you'll never see me making a comment about the ITG bracket. Also if I have to judge an ITG-style chart I'll die.

And I've never played a NeonFM chart so I have no idea what this implies, but I do like jammitch's post in general. Except the idea that RADIO STAR was a cookie-cutter 7 is well not something I would ever ever agree with

So to be simpler, the only things I'd like to see of any importance are these:
- More points to graphics based on aesthetic value than on whether you followed the rules. 0 points if you don't follow the rules. Allow 320 x 240 dimensions
- In the final vote, steps should be overall more important than anything else. They mathematically weren't if I recall correctly

Xythar · 10-07-2006, 09:22 PM

I don't want to see the divisions done away with. OSC5 actually gave me an excuse to make KB & ITG style steps >_> Plus, I got to enter three things, which I otherwise wouldn't have. Like it or not, people expect certain things from competition entries, which is why we have the different divisions in the first place. If we combined them all together, people's expectations would probably crash horribly into each other.

cpubasic13 · 10-07-2006, 09:47 PM

1. No saying "This file sucks." without giving any reasoning behind it. Besides, nobody should be saying that. The reviews should focus on what is wrong and what can be done to fix those flaws as well as what is right and how it worked well. No negative comments, is basically what I'm saying.

2. Improved rating system. It was alright, but it could have been more solid. The fact that people graded the steps solely on Heavy didn't help matters, either. Possibly make it to where we have a slight more time to review so we could rate all the steps that are required?

3. More variety. >_>

So far, that's all I can think of... >_>

Juub005 · 10-07-2006, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpubasic13

No negative comments, is basically what I'm saying.

...>_> That's basically not what you said at all

But what you did say carries a valid point. The only problem is that somebody who sees a LOT of problems with a chart is not going to be overly encouraged to state what worked. I think this was a rule in place already (no unsubstantial public reviews) but I dunno whether it was efficiently enforced; I wasn't paying attention.

discovolante · 10-08-2006, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juub005

Hey, I also think ITG-style charts are not worth my time but I don't say too much about it. That's why you'll never see me making a comment about the ITG bracket. Also if I have to judge an ITG-style chart I'll die.

See, I think that's really stupid. No offense, but I think if we all adopted an attitude that any chart was worth playing, we could do the no-divisions thing (and I'd like that a lot). I mean, it's not like you're playing ITG, you're playing ITG-styled stepcharts, so you might find something you enjoy. I was pretty skeptical of what the DDR bracket would be like, and ended up pleasantly surprised.

I thought the ITG division was pretty underwhelming overall, though.

**jammitch!** · 10-08-2006, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #Infinity

so why only use DDR

Thank you for not reading a single word of my post whatsoever.

Also, how fair for those of us who make neither DDR nor ITG nor KB stepcharts to not have a competition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juub005

And I've never played a NeonFM chart so I have no idea what this implies

I think about a dozen people have ever played one.

Code:

   <-XX-><-XX-> 
<-XX-><-XX-><-XX->

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesterline

ooh a direct attack on me AWESOME

Oh, come off it. I wasn't thinking of one song when I wrote that so much as a hundred. There's a reason Eurodance works for DDR, and nothing's ever going to change that; I want to see some branching out on top of that.

Note that even I consider my tastes somewhere between unusual and suspect.

I still don't see why a pretty normal 9 on heavy and a reasonable 11 on challenge is "overly hard" but whatever.