What do you want to see in OSC 6? - Page 2

TakeWalker · 10-08-2006, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by discovolante

(just look at TakeWalker's wonderfully open-minded "ITG charts are crap" comment)

YES. It is wonderful, isn't it?

Just ask me what I think about keyboard files...

Quote:

Originally Posted by discovolante

See, I think that's really stupid. No offense, but I think if we all adopted an attitude that any chart was worth playing, we could do the no-divisions thing (and I'd like that a lot). I mean, it's not like you're playing ITG, you're playing ITG-styled stepcharts, so you might find something you enjoy. I was pretty skeptical of what the DDR bracket would be like, and ended up pleasantly surprised.

I thought the ITG division was pretty underwhelming overall, though.

But the thing is, not all of us play ITG or keyboard files on a regular basis, number one. I did a written review with no scores for the ITG bracket because, in my experience, ITG can actually be fun, but is generally a stupidfest of mines and hands and really crazy 16th runs. And I didn't score it because I don't know what makes a good ITG file. Not to mention, some of us can't handle mines, and some of our hardware cannot replicate hands at all.

And as for keyboard files, I can't even play most of them. They're just too full of stupid. If you collapse the divisions, you're going to have one group of people just reviewing the DDR and maybe ITG files and not even touching the KB, and another group sticking to the KB and maybe ITG and thinking all the DDR sims are too easy.

#Infinity · 10-08-2006, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jammitch!

Also, how fair for those of us who make neither DDR nor ITG nor KB stepcharts to not have a competition.

Couldn't they just enter a simfile in each bracket and discover which one did the best overall? Did you even take in to true concern the problem that I stated? To me, it works out a lot better if there is a seperate winner for each category when the majority of people prefer DDR simfiles over ITG ones.

discovolante · 10-08-2006, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TakeWalker

But the thing is, not all of us play ITG or keyboard files on a regular basis, number one. I did a written review with no scores for the ITG bracket because, in my experience, ITG can actually be fun, but is generally a stupidfest of mines and hands and really crazy 16th runs. And I didn't score it because I don't know what makes a good ITG file. Not to mention, some of us can't handle mines, and some of our hardware cannot replicate hands at all.

First of all, I didn't even bring up Keyboard files. I don't think they should be included at all in the main division because they're meant to be played on a keyboard and not a pad.

I agree that ITG does go overboard sometimes with mines (Breathe) and with hands (Gradation). In fact I think overuse of these things is definitely what turns some off from ITG, and the biggest flaw in my file this time around. That said, I get the feeling that the only reason you're saying "stupidfest" is because you can't pass them. I don't know how long you've played dance games for, but if you can't appreciate something like Bend Your Mind or Clockwork Genesis because you can't pass them, you're missing out on a lot of really awesome, groundbreaking charts.

Don't take this as a personal attack, because it's not; I think you're pretty cool and I liked your entry in the DDR division. There's gotta be progress, though. DarkLuke's file from a few OSC's ago got ripped because it had some mines in it, Jammitch's Rock Steady from this OSC had a lot of detractors because the oni chart was rated an 11. We should all be more open minded about these things...

**jammitch!** · 10-08-2006, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #Infinity

Couldn't they just enter a simfile in each bracket and discover which one did the best overall?

Bad analogy time! Let's say I have a hammer. I want to enter it into a fastening contest, to see how good it is at attaching things to other things. So you tell me to enter my hammer into a screwing-in contest and a gluing-on contest. Naturally, my hammer doesn't do so well in either.

The point is, neither ITG nor DDR encompass the world of arrow smashing. I don't want to find out if my file is good at mimicking those two, and I don't want to know how to make it mimic them better. I want to know how to make it fun. That's it. The divisions run quite contrary to those objectives.

#Infinity · 10-08-2006, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jammitch!

Bad analogy time! Let's say I have a hammer. I want to enter it into a fastening contest, to see how good it is at attaching things to other things. So you tell me to enter my hammer into a screwing-in contest and a gluing-on contest. Naturally, my hammer doesn't do so well in either.

The point is, neither ITG nor DDR encompass the world of arrow smashing. I don't want to find out if my file is good at mimicking those two, and I don't want to know how to make it mimic them better. I want to know how to make it fun. That's it. The divisions run quite contrary to those objectives.

Well, fair enough. If you want OSC 6 to follow the way of Tournamix 6, then fine, you have a good enough reason. I just personally prefer to use brackets, but everyone has their right to their own opinion. I predict the rules won't change in that way, though.

Dark Luke · 10-08-2006, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by discovolante

DarkLuke's file from a few OSC's ago got ripped because it had some mines in it,

That was Filava Melis, which was caused by the 6 mines in the hard chart. It was from TM6, not any OSCs.

Red Sun was the only OSC file I made that had mines and hands in it. They appear in the challenge difficulties only, and these charts were considered extras in OSC3.

Saltarello got ripped very badly too, but there were no mines or hands in it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by discovolante

Jammitch's Rock Steady from this OSC had a lot of detractors because the oni chart was rated an 11. We should all be more open minded about these things...

I totally agree. Maybe Konami might start to introduce mines and hands, or expanding their difficulty scale in their next DDR mix (even if it's extremely unlikely to happen)?

Patashu · 10-08-2006, 07:11 PM

Just making sure, would it be okay if my ITG entry had only a few mines on Expert, not nearly enough to cloud your vision, and it's clear what purpose they serve and what they follow? We're cool with mines if it's not omg try and hit the arrows in this impossibly dense minefield hehe?

alphabet55 · 10-08-2006, 07:33 PM

Patashu, there are expert charts in ITG that don't have any mines, so I think a small amout would be fine.

In other news, I'd like to not see a make-solo-steps-for-some-song challenge round ever again. It was fun, but I feel like I made a stepchart that almost nobody will ever play.

As for what I would like to see added, how about a real prize, like tokens, or some special symbol added under you name somewhere that says "winner of OSC6" or whatever.

Patashu · 10-08-2006, 08:58 PM

Tokens and a badge/symbol/whatever sounds good. Don't think they can afford to give a real prize out if they're actually taking sponsorships on simfiles, though.

hamm · 10-08-2006, 10:55 PM

Uh... ok here's what I think. Keep it the way it is, but do away with the whole official judge thing. A lot of the files that were good were shot down by the judges, and in the end they're just people with their own opinions, and there's no real reason that they should have more of a say.

Also,

Quote:

Originally Posted by #Infinity

certain people show their strengths in either ITG (Hamm)

In total honesty, I don't play DDR and have no place in a DDR simfile competition. I have since made ITG style steps for Dragostea Din Tei, and they're fairly fun, and I'm ashamed of the DDR steps.

Also, that's the first time I've ever used that winky smile-face dealie.

discovolante · 10-08-2006, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphabet55

In other news, I'd like to not see a make-solo-steps-for-some-song challenge round ever again. It was fun, but I feel like I made a stepchart that almost nobody will ever play.

Wait a minute... which one did you do? I thought you did High School Love...?

I agree with Hamm's judge idea.

alphabet55 · 10-09-2006, 09:29 AM

For the challenge round? I did Jump and 24.

TakeWalker · 10-09-2006, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by discovolante

I agree that ITG does go overboard sometimes with mines (Breathe) and with hands (Gradation). In fact I think overuse of these things is definitely what turns some off from ITG, and the biggest flaw in my file this time around. That said, I get the feeling that the only reason you're saying "stupidfest" is because you can't pass them. I don't know how long you've played dance games for, but if you can't appreciate something like Bend Your Mind or Clockwork Genesis because you can't pass them, you're missing out on a lot of really awesome, groundbreaking charts.

I've been playing for about five years now. I've never been very good (I never did pass PSM), but when I can't pass a file with my fingers (which is the only way I can play Stepmania), then something is wrong. There's also a difference between "this is really hard, but it's a good challenge and I want to beat it," and "OMG this is fucking insane there's no way I can pass it". And like I said, when certain people's hardware doesn't support hands, what's the use in putting them in a file? I'm sure if I played ITG more often, I'd get used to hands and mines. But I nevertheless think they're mostly pointless (mines especially), and since my machine can't handle them, I don't want to deal with them.

#Infinity · 10-09-2006, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamm

Uh... ok here's what I think. Keep it the way it is, but do away with the whole official judge thing. A lot of the files that were good were shot down by the judges, and in the end they're just people with their own opinions, and there's no real reason that they should have more of a say.

I agree, the judges often had stupid impacts on song rankings. I mean, it sucks enough that you perhaps had by far the best simfile stepwise in the ITG bracket, but couldn't skip to the finals because of low-rating judge reviews (and you could've won it all, too

). Actually, I recommend they keep the judges, but only if there are at least 4 or 5 to rate the simfiles so that the average is more accurate. Notice how Dancin' In My Dreams started off lower than my simfile in the DDR Bracket, but then climbed up all the way to 4th, while mine was left in 8th place because Zounder rated it only 74/100 since he viewed the extra stepchart only as hurting instead of helping (that is, even if it were rated 17/18, it would still be worse than not including a Challenge stepchart at all), and that rating counted a whole lot because there were only 2 judges, including him.

Dark Luke · 10-09-2006, 06:21 PM

To lessen the amount of excessive work for the judges, consider making the future stepfile contests to have only 1 judged stepchart (and each entries requires only 1 difficulty instead of 3). Then, make sure at least 5 judges turn in their judging scores, and throw away the lowest and highest judged score for score calculation for each stepfile.

Too many judges ended up unable to judge in OSC5... With heavy impact caused by real life...

And I don't consider Dancing in my dreams's 4th bracket rank to be valid, for this reason. It's like 7th place in the public reviews with many people disliking the steps.