Some Questions for OSC Participants

[lrxevan]

While you could consider this to be off-topic, and I would agree, I'd like any moderators reading this to consider the reason I'm posting this here; and that is, that, I am directing it specifically at OSC participants as they tend to be the most talented/involved authors that the community has to offer.

I was speaking with a good friend of mine earlier, Ebisumaru, about starting up a new site for us and a few friends' (who will not be made known at this time, as it is their perogative at this point whether or not they choose to be known) simfiles. I, however, have a somewhat larger vision.

The topic of conversation drifted away from just something nDDRo-like and toward a more "involved" website. In my opinion, the simfile community has grown a little too big for its metaphorical britches.

BemaniStyle, DDR Maniax, and DDREI have all been very supportive of the simfile community for as long as its been around, but I feel as though it is time it gained its own home—a home for tournaments, simfiles, and a forum with a large community full of intelligent, helpful individuals to support it; a place where stupidity and misinformation is not tolerated, and a place where the simfile community can come into its own rather than being a 'branch' of the DDR community.

A website such as this may include:

-Simfiles from spotlight authors
-Forums, obviously
-Quarterly Competitions with a unique scoring system
-Perhaps a simfile database similar to BMS's, but with more moderation; again, this site should promote quality.

Bear in mind that this website would be specifically dealing with the art of simfiles created with a resemblence to DDR in mind; with the recent revival of DDR, this seems far less unreasonable than it would have before the announcement of DDR Supernova.

Well, what do you think? I'm quite serious about getting this started if there's enough interest.

[discovolante]

Originally Posted by lrxevan

Bear in mind that this website would be specifically dealing with the art of simfiles created with a resemblence to DDR in mind; with the recent revival of DDR, this seems far less unreasonable than it would have before the announcement of DDR Supernova.

You pretty much had me until here. Sorry, but I won't be going if we're going to be limited to one style, be it DDR or ITG or whatever.

[lrxevan]

Originally Posted by discovolante

You pretty much had me until here. Sorry, but I won't be going if we're going to be limited to one style, be it DDR or ITG or whatever.

I am of the understanding that you have more of an interest in ITG simfiles, but I feel like it is harder to build a community if you don't have a focus. Seeing as the group I had in mind to head up the project were more involved in DDR simfiles than ITG or even Keyboard (which is a completely different game, to be sure), it seemed only natural that we would limit it as such.

I have nothing (well, nothing fundimental) against "new-age" simfiles with mines or extreme difficulty; hell, I was even involved in a game based on them for a while.

But these are two completely seperate communties with a very conflictive nature and past. Rather than claim that this proposed site is a bad idea, it would be more fitting if you just settled on it being "not for you."

[discovolante]

I still don't think a barrier should be instated. It just doesn't seem right. That's like making a community of painters and only allowing people who create neo-expressionist art to join. You can do it if you want, but I don't see in what way that could possibly help your community. It just limits its potential output and limits creativity.

[alphabet55]

I agree with discovolante. To me, simfiles shouldn't have to immitate DDR files or ITG files. They should just be simfiles.

When I make simfiles, very rarely do I actually decide "This one will be ITG style" or "I'm gonna model this one off of DDR 4th Mix songs".

edit: Woah, I was writing my post before I saw discovolante's post right above mine, but I was actually gonna put in an example involving panters and painting, too. Only mine was gonna be about oil painting. Scary.

[lrxevan]

Originally Posted by alphabet55

When I make simfiles, very rarely do I actually decide "This one will be ITG style" or "I'm gonna model this one off of DDR 4th Mix songs".

This isn't really relevant, but as an aside, I will mention that that is EXACTLY what I do.

[discovolante]

Originally Posted by alphabet55

Woah, I was writing my post before I saw discovolante's post right above mine, but I was actually gonna put in an example involving panters and painting, too. Only mine was gonna be about oil painting. Scary.

Very. O_O

You pointed out something that I neglected to mention, though, that you shouldn't have to imitate styles either. I mean, just because you have hands and mines doesn't mean you're going to imitate Chris Foy, and just because you have doublestepping and 8th notes that go to 16th note synth doesn't mean you're making a DDR stepchart. Everyone has their own original style, or at least I'd like to think so. It's one thing to limit to a style for a competition, but something totally different for an entire site.

I promise that you will be alienating 50+% of the stepfile community if you make it DDR-style only.

[lrxevan]

Originally Posted by discovolante

Very. O_O

You pointed out something that I neglected to mention, though, that you shouldn't have to imitate styles either. I mean, just because you have hands and mines doesn't mean you're going to imitate Chris Foy, and just because you have doublestepping and 8th notes that go to 16th note synth doesn't mean you're making a DDR stepchart. Everyone has their own original style, or at least I'd like to think so. It's one thing to limit to a style for a competition, but something totally different for an entire site.

I promise that you will be alienating 50+% of the stepfile community if you make it DDR-style only.

Your concerns have been noted and will be considered (really!).

Can we agree that Keyboard files have no place there, though? It's not even the same game anymore. I'd really like to focus on pad players, at least.

[discovolante]

That has some merit, considering that one can't really be compared to the other.

And although this doesn't matter I don't like keyboard simfiles very much. :-\

[Makou]

I guess I'll be the one person who has the insides to agree with lrxevan on this one. Like it or not, while they're both (primarily) 4-panel dance games, DDR and ITG have different styles -- and it does go beyond things like mines, hands, and rolls. DDR seems to focus more on overall enjoyment, while ITG is mostly about challenge. Yes, you can take something that's "pure DDR" and make it challenging, and I've played some very enjoyable "pure ITG" files, but that doesn't change the general focus of the two brands.

And as far as keyboard stuff goes, if that's the kind of thing I'm looking for, I'll load up Beatmania on my PS2. That crap has no place in my arrow smash.

[Xythar]

It sounds good, but what about DDRExtreme.co.uk? That already has most of what you're suggesting, I would've thought... it's just not that popular. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, tho.

[sanchny]

Goddamnit I type slow. What I was going to say has been said already as I went to preview what I wrote. See what Makou wrote and see what Xythar wrote.

There's a distinction between ITG and DDR files. It's their site, they'll have a right to say what styles can be allowed. It's not that ITG style is bad, it's just that there's a different audience for it and not something that they want to do.

I like the DDRextreme.co.uk packs for what Xythar said. Also, they have good variety (in terms of steps and songs), even though each pack has a theme. The theme helps make it more coherent, too.

Edit: It does sound like a good idea, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on DDRextreme.co.uk first.

[Zounder]

Originally Posted by lrxevan

a home for tournaments, simfiles, and a forum with a large community full of intelligent, helpful individuals to support it; a place where stupidity and misinformation is not tolerated, and a place where the simfile community can come into its own rather than being a 'branch' of the DDR community.

Silly, such a place can never exist.

But in all seriousness, there's nothing at all wrong with this idea. What did you expect OSC participants to say, "No, we do not wish for a great simfile community! Leave us alone! "

[lrxevan]

Originally Posted by sanchny

Goddamnit I type slow. What I was going to say has been said already as I went to preview what I wrote. See what Makou wrote and see what Xythar wrote.

There's a distinction between ITG and DDR files. It's their site, they'll have a right to say what styles can be allowed. It's not that ITG style is bad, it's just that there's a different audience for it and not something that they want to do.

I like the DDRextreme.co.uk packs for what Xythar said. Also, they have good variety (in terms of steps and songs), even though each pack has a theme. The theme helps make it more coherent, too.

Edit: It does sound like a good idea, but I'd like to hear your thoughts onDDRextreme.co.uk first.

It is difficult to compare DDRExtreme to my vision without potentially hurting feelings. Despite what I say on the forums, my intention is and never has been to actually hurt anyone. In the case of my reviews and commentary, I believe it is a case of people making work on simfiles they have done very personal, and thus, making comments out to be a "slap in the face." I am very, very careful in how I approach a review of a simfile. I never want the author to feel like I am reviewing them, only their work.

I do not like the way DDRExtreme's competitions are run; actually I do not like it when people enter their own competitions at all. A large portion of this site would be dedicated to competitions, and I have a fundimentally different view on the way those should go when compared to not only DDRExtreme but other sites as well. I want to run the site differently from DDRExtreme, and not because it's run poorly, but because I don't feel like DDRExtreme has gained a community that a site like that could potentially amass.

The fact is, I have different standards than DDRExtreme does. They tend to go for a more avant garde approach to their work, which is fine; not everyone intends for their simfiles to feel as though they've come from a real DDR mix. This is something that I, and the people I want to work with, value quite a bit, and is something unique that I feel we can offer to the community; as a side note, it is also the reason I do not really want to include ITG in the equation.

Compare the style of Rage/Ditz's file in TM6, Country Roads, to any file produced by nDDRo. I do not so much care for the style of Country Roads, but that doesn't mean others didn't; they file did quite well in the competition. That doesn't necessarily mean, however, that, that style is what I want to offer.

[Aeronautical Vigilante]

Pardon me for being questioning of this concept on more than one level, not the least of which being that this is completely and utterly off-topic for DDR OSC in every way, shape, and form, thus why it's going to be locked as soon as I post this.

Second, what I am basically getting from your description, I am going to be frank, is "I want to create a site based on my precise ideas of what simfiles should be and little else". I can think of exactly one site that succeeded on this for any length of time, a site which is now, by the way, gone. Namely, Arch0wl.com. The problem with trying to run on such a limited idea, is that it is incarnately alienating to artists who want to try different things. Discow Moscow, Tournamix 4. Definately not a DDR-feeling set of charts, but damn they're fun.

Whatever made you decide to start discussing this idea, here, I do not know, but this is the wrong forum for it, period. This should have gone in DDR simulation. If you want to continue on this thread, you should do it there.

Also, just as a note to you, lrxevan, PlatinumHawke forwarded me your PM to him.